Discuss mailing list

[<vv AT cgs.pw>]

Perhaps I misunderstood, but I don't think that
Discord was intended to replace the mailing list.
If I understand correctly, the ML would still be
where voting take place.

~ Ole


On Sat, 07 Jul 2018 15:50:33 -0400 (EDT)
"Daniel Quintiliani" <danq AT runbox.com> wrote:

> My main concern is the ability to edit messages, which
> could result in manipulation of votes. Even if users
> editing their messages is disabled, a disgruntled or
> dishonest admin can cause trouble. Perhaps something like
> groups.io would be a better idea?
> 
> --
> 
> -Dan Q
> 
> On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 13:35:39 -0500, Jonah Aragon
> <jonah AT triplebit.net> wrote:
> 
> > Hello all!
> > 
> > This is going to be a pretty big proposal today, since
> > not much has happened in a while. TL;DR: we should move
> > to Discourse (but I hope you'll read the rest of this
> > mail anyways).
> > 
> > ## It's just a proposal.
> > 
> > I want to be clear right from the start that this is
> > just a proposal, nothing here is guaranteed, and the
> > entire point of this thread is to hear your opinions.
> > Before shutting it down, lets see if we can reach some
> > sort of agreement.
> > 
> > ## Why should we do this?
> > 
> > For quite some time, I've been thinking about ways
> > OpenNIC's community platforms have been a success, and
> > ways we could improve ourselves, especially in terms of
> > gaining new users and fostering regular discussion.
> > Times change, and a mailing list is simply a relic of
> > another era. I firmly believe there is a significant
> > group of people that would join our community, but
> > don't want to join a mailing list. In these modern
> > times, people simply expect a UI to join platforms like
> > this, and are a lot more comfortable there/online
> > versus participating via email. This is a thought I've
> > heard repeated by other community members here, so I'm
> > not alone.
> > 
> > ## Why Discourse?/Why a forum?
> > 
> > Let me just link to
> > https://blog.discourse.org/category/use-cases/ for an
> > overview, but I'll pull out some especially useful
> > examples below, in no particular order.
> > 
> > * Easier for new users to get started with a clean and
> > simple interface
> > * Better search and search engine indexing
> > * Post creation tries to be helpful, suggesting similar
> > topics that already exist.
> > * Markdown support.
> > * Category-level subscriptions.
> > * Browser & phone push notifications for new posts.
> > * Community digest by email & “unread” on the web (for
> > those who can’t keep an eye on the web site all the
> > time).
> > * Converting a post to a wiki post, so everyone can
> > edit it.
> > * Group-level notifications.
> > 
> > In an overall sense, migrating to a forum, and
> > Discourse in particular grants us many new features out
> > of the box, that aren't replicable on a list like this,
> > as well as flexibility in the future.
> > 
> > ## How it helps with support
> > 
> > When it comes to support, especially with integral
> > operating system components like DNS, which we
> > specialize in, what matters is that users can ask a
> > question and get a reply that they can feel confident
> > in.
> > 
> > The problem with mailing lists is that neither of these
> > things are really achievable on a mailing list. If a
> > user, who just joined this mailing list and knows
> > nobody, gets two differing replies, who is (s)he to
> > trust? A forum on the other hand can display user
> > reputation levels, badges, and titles that distinguish
> > trusted members of our community from another new
> > user's reply. A mailing list has nothing distinguishing
> > users apart whatsoever, to the point where I still have
> > to check peoples history and qualifications after years
> > of participating here.
> > 
> > Discourse specifically also helps new users by showing
> > "Similar Topics" when they're creating a post, ideally
> > pointing them to existing resources before starting a
> > new thread. This is impossible for new users to do from
> > within their mailbox, and incredibly difficult to find
> > via Sympa's uh, "lacking," web interface. Features like
> > this can prevent duplicate posts from cluttering our
> > platform.
> > 
> > Discourse also supports plugins (it's a Rails app)
> > which should allow us to look at things like issue
> > templates, etc. for people needing support with some of
> > our services like Tier 2 servers.
> > 
> > ## How it helps with announcements
> > 
> > We currently don't have a dedicated announcements
> > platform, making it impossible for any organizationally
> > relevant news to be shown to many new users. Currently,
> > our only option is to send it to the mailing list,
> > which is what we currently do, but that leads to
> > important information being lost among the other
> > threads. Discourse has supports for sticky posts and a
> > global announcements banner we can use to get important
> > messages across.
> > 
> > ## More general notes
> > 
> > Discourse has a lot of things going for it, as a
> > platform. Groups support for example, can help segment
> > our members into groups we can use for notifications,
> > etc. If there's a change to the root zone for example,
> > a quick ping to @tier2ops from our Tier 0 administrator
> > can notify them all right away. Groups can be
> > invite-only or users can self-select to join them,
> > depending on configuration.
> > 
> > Additionally, private messages may be useful,
> > especially if somebody is offline on IRC, which happens
> > often. It also has a privacy benefit over the mailing
> > list: many users are a lot more comfortable sharing
> > usernames versus their email address.
> > 
> > ## But I love mailing lists!
> > 
> > Discourse does offer a per-user "mailing list mode" you
> > can enable. Now, I'm not going to try and sell this as
> > a 1:1 replacement for this mailing list, but a lot of
> > the core functionality can remain the same. Creating
> > new topics, replying to posts, and getting individual
> > replies via email should all work. Threading works too,
> > so the basic functionality of a mailing list should
> > work fine.
> > 
> > Is it a perfect replacement for this use-case? No. Is
> > it a worthwhile tradeoff? I think so, you tell me :)
> > 
> > ## How will this server work?
> > 
> > @fusl (Katie) will be hosting a Discourse server for
> > us. (As an aside, she also hosts the wiki, our two
> > active anycast servers, and a lot of backend stuff for
> > this organization). I'm hoping to get Discourse online
> > within the next week or two at community.opennic.org
> > that we can test out, which would become our live
> > server if this proposal is approved.
> > 
> > ## What's next?
> > 
> > Nothing immediately. I want to gather a lot of feedback
> > on this proposal before we proceed. I'll be here to
> > answer any questions, and you can also email me
> > privately with any questions/concerns at
> > jonah AT triplebit.net.
> > 
> > After some time, exactly how long depending on the
> > amount/type of feedback we get on this proposal, we'll
> > be able to look at everything and come to a decision,
> > and bring it to a vote here. This time around I don't
> > want to rush anything, and I want to make sure we
> > consider everything before coming to a conclusion, so
> > please voice any feedback you may have. It's a pretty
> > big change, organizationally, and I want to make sure
> > we get everything right.
> > 
> > I very much hope everyone here will support me on our
> > journey to the modern world. Change isn't easy for
> > anybody, but I genuinely believe we need this to
> > happen. Let me know your thoughts!
> > 
> > Thanks everybody,
> > 
> > Jonah
> > 
> > 
> > --------
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> > You may unsubscribe by emailing
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> 
>