Discuss mailing list

[Philipp Schafft <lion AT lion.leolix.org>]

Good afternoon,

On Sun, 2017-12-31 at 14:05 +0100, Amunak wrote:
> How are those things different?

Let me show you below.

> You either agree with the proposal and
> vote YES, disagree and vote NO (which I feel is something you may have
> wanted to do)

I didn't nor do I.


> or you abstain for whatever reason (like I did). There is
> no reason to even announce the decision to abstain, as anything but a
> YES or NO vote should not be counted anyways.


> You can vote ABSTAIN,
> RANDOM or UNICORNS and it will have the same effect (that is to say,
> absolutely none).

This is not correct.

The difference is that a invalid vote is still part of the counted
votes.

Here is an example:
There shall be an election between the option A and B. 50% of all votes
are needed to pass. There are 7 possible voting entities.

Case 0:
A:           3
B:           1
Abstinence:  3

counted votes: 3+1 = 4.
Result:
A: 3/4 = 75%
B: 1/4 = 25%

Option A passes.

Case 1:
A:           3 (same as above)
B:           1 (same as above)
Invalid:     3

Counted votes: 3+1+3 = 7
Result:
A: 3/7 = 42.9%
B: 1/7 = 14.3%

NO option passes.


The counted/non-counted is the true difference between a invalid vote
and an abstinence.

Beside that, it's often a kind of public protest. (Which is not why I
voted invalid.)


> Why do you believe our voting process is undemocratic?

I gave a list of aspects a democratic voting process must follow in my
second last mail. If you have specific question I can maybe answer them.
However I don't want to just repeat what I have said already.


With best regards,

also: wish everybody who is on a gregorian calendar a nice run and jump
into the next year!

> Amunak
> 
> On 31.12.2017 0:25, Philipp Schafft wrote:
> > Good evening,
> >
> > On Sat, 2017-12-30 at 13:10 +1100, opennic AT ned-ludd.com wrote:
> >> On Fri, 29 Dec 2017, Philipp Schafft wrote:
> >>> So I cam to the conclusion that my only option would be to 
> >>> cast an invalid vote. It was the only option left for me to 
> >>> actively show that I can not support any of the given options.
> >> It might have saved some confusion if you'd declared your 
> >> intention to ABSTAIN rather than voting RANDOM.
> > I wanted to cast an invalid vote. That is what I did. If I wanted to
> > abstain I would have done that. Those are two totally different things.
> >
> >
> >> I've searched the Wiki for a detailed description of voting 
> >> guidelines and found nothing much beyond mention of YES and NO 
> >> votes.  If such exists I'd be grateful for a link so I can read 
> >> it.  If it doesn't exist it seems to me that the voting system 
> >> is in need of clarification and, perhaps, codification.
> >  
> > I don't think there is one. And I always suggested to have some general
> > process documented that is binding. In addition some specific additions
> > for specific kinds of votes.
> >
> > Also the absence of a documented process doesn't mean you're bound to
> > your responsibility to uphold what I would consider common sense for
> > democratic elections.
> >
> > Failing to do so however let my stay away from acknowledging this
> > election.

-- 
Philipp.
 (Rah of PH2)