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[postmaster <postmaster AT welcome.factoryfouroh.net>]

We need to wait and see if others, seeing things I see, are going to 
show up here.
At this point I am just one guy with a strongly biased opinion about 
uses of Linux, OpenNIC, virtualization, and other things in 
manufacturing,  for tiny shops in driving distance, in my own neck of 
woods.

If I could do better I would already be running my own show, making 
money and creating neighborhood networks for manufacturing, operating 
something between a trade-school and employment agency. But I am just a 
geek and a nerd, I have no organizational skills, I am a terrible in 
selling anything - so I am still trying to find or create this thing.

In the meanwhile I am building my own tool room, for now printed and 
validated in PLA plastic. In a few years 3D printing metal is going to 
be more affordable and balanced, so maybe I be able to pay my way for 
those networks.

Cheers,
Sandor


On 2020-10-14 05:58, Erich Eckner wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, 14 Oct 2020, postmaster wrote:
>
> > I do not code, I can barely manage curly bracket scripting but ---
> > In OpenSCAD, for industry, the 'code' is just a beginning.
> >
> > I create my models to be easily resizable, for example I create my 
> > dovetails solids created from vectors like this:
>
> [... snip ...]
>
> > So on, so on - you cannot mass-produce something just by downloading a 
> > model script. The script depository is also a vector-like system, you 
> > have the public one which is useful only as a knowledge base - the 
> > rest you need to fit to your needs, so you need your very own git - 
> > and I can tell you, losing the values which provide the "perfect" 
> > slicing of the model cost me countless hours... I only have Ender 3s 
> > and 5s, but I imagine in the near future the printer capacities are 
> > going to play a much more significant role in designing.
> >
> > So, you do not use OpenNIC for "production" - your "production" data 
> > is your very own git repo.
>
> I'm not sure, that I see, what you expect to get from an opennic tld:
> Would this be used locally (e.g. within one shop/factory) only? Should
> it be useable from "the internet" or at least some part thereof?
>
> What's the advantage of using an opennic tld versus registering an
> icann second (or even third) level domain (some of which can be
> registered for free)?
>
> I guess, this all is pretty clear, if one has a good idea, what
> "industry 4.0" actually is - which I do not have (even after reading
> the wikipedia article). Sry.
>
> Regards,
> Erich
>
> > On 2020-10-14 00:25, Erich Eckner wrote:
> > > On Wed, 14 Oct 2020, Nicholson-Goult Hayden wrote:
> > >
> > > > 11:27 pm, 13 October 2020, Jeff Taylor <shdwdrgn AT sourpuss.net>:
> > > >       OK but I think you're missing the point. You are trying to
> > > >       reach out to an industry of generally non-technical people 
> > > > (I.E.
> > > >       not computer geeks). HOW are they going to view the domains in
> > > >       your TLD? In most cases of manufacturing equipment that I am
> > > >       familiar with, the computers are rigidly controlled to ensure
> > > >       there is no chance of virus infection or unintended software
> > > >       updates. So not only do you need to convince other
> > > >       manufacturers that it's worthwhile to change their DNS 
> > > > settings,
> > > >       but you also need to develop the software for their computers 
> > > > to
> > > >       keep up with a changing list of DNS servers, and probably be
> > > >       capable of reliably making the initial updates to their
> > > >       computers. And you've already stated that you have no interest
> > > >       in maintaining a TLD server, so I'm not sure who you expect to
> > > >       write and maintain the code to update multiple operating
> > > >       systems?
> > > >
> > > >       Beyond that, who will these manufacturers call for assistance
> > > >       when they have trouble reaching the internet because the DNS
> > > >       updates failed? Who will they call to support them when they
> > > >       have trouble creating or renewing a domain? This TLD is your
> > > >       project, so you are ultimately responsible for supporting your
> > > >       customer's domains. Is that something you are ready to take 
> > > > on,
> > > >       or are you going to tell them to join this mailing list and 
> > > > wait
> > > >       a few days for someone to answer their queries?
> > > >
> > > >       The reason I keep saying Opennic is not suitable for 
> > > > commercial
> > > >       applications is because you are asking businesses to change 
> > > > the
> > > >       very core of the way their computers connect to the internet.
> > > >       Imagine if a company goes offline for an hour -- how much 
> > > > money
> > > >       did they lose during that period? How much did they pay 
> > > > someone
> > > >       to troubleshoot the problem and get them back online? And how
> > > >       does that compare to the $10/year that it costs to purchase a
> > > >       domain from ICANN and avoid the potential loss of business?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >       On 10/13/20 3:47 PM, postmaster wrote:
> > > >       There are at least a few dozen small shops in the NW
> > > >       suburbs of Chicago, and that is all I care about. Those
> > > >       shops cannot afford any Industry 4.0 advancements, but I
> > > >       can help them to begin with digitizing their production
> > > >       floor.
> > > >
> > > >       You must work in manufacturing to be able to see most the
> > > >       opportunities - yes, commercial opportunities. For
> > > >       example, for 3D printing I specialize in movement and
> > > >       storage, such as dovetails and rails. Some of my
> > > >       prototypes are printed in PLA, then they are fitted with
> > > >       shim stock to reach accuracy. The plastic dovetails are
> > > >       opened to fit and route electrical wiring and mount
> > > >       sensors such as limit switches, cycle count, temperature
> > > >       and heat sensors. The PLA later is going to be replaced
> > > >       with molded nylon, the standard screws with precision
> > > >       threaded rods, the walls of storage with pierced steel. I
> > > >       help people design so their printed plastic is as close to
> > > >       manufacturing capacity as reasonable or practical.
> > > >
> > > >       OpenNIC has a purpose, more later. industry 4.0 is a
> > > >       service stack, mostly edge-computing with proprietary
> > > >       gateways to the sensors and process - much like the
> > > >       self-checkout stations you see everywhere. In
> > > >       manufacturing this is much more complex, and it is still
> > > >       evolving. The reason i got into MAAS is to free myself
> > > >       from ICANN, and via VPN like ZeroTier or similar
> > > >       thechnologies make the NW Chicago Factory 4.0 network -
> > > >       entirely ICANN independent possible.
> > > >
> > > >       The only reason you do not see how this could fit together
> > > >       is because you, unlike me, is not researching this for
> > > >       years. Industry 4.0 is way too large and too expensive for
> > > >       99.99999 percent of factory floors. I have much better
> > > >       ideas and solutions.
> > > >
> > > >       But I am not going to write more until there are a few
> > > >       people interested. Again, manufacturing is not as exiting
> > > >       as free software or the theory of anarchy. Its a
> > > >       repetitive, rigid and unforgiving environment, but not
> > > >       without room to play.
> > > >
> > > >       On 2020-10-13 15:11, Jeff Taylor wrote:
> > > >             So let me ask you... Who is your target
> > > >             audience for creating this
> > > >             TLD? There is no commercial application for
> > > >             it, but it sounds like
> > > >             you want to create a domain space for
> > > >             manufacturers. To me that
> > > >             appears contradictory, so I'm curious as to
> > > >             what purpose you think it
> > > >             would serve?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >             --------
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hayden A N Goult
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
> > -- Low-Cost No-Risk Pilots for Transitioning to Industry 4.0 - a Linux 
> > User Group for the Manufacturing Sector
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