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[sjeap <sjeap AT lavabit.com>]

Comments inline.

Am 16.06.2012 20:59, schrieb Richard Lyons:
> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 14:29:58 -0400, Jon Hebb wrote:
> 
>> Can I ask what's wrong with the current adopted OpenNIC logo? As seen on
>> http://wiki.opennicproject.org/HomePage (it is not on our main website as
>> of current)
> 
> There are two logos shown there.  the i-in-a-swirl which also appears as
> favicon, and the logo in the centre (which on chrome renders half
> overlapping text in the right column).  I personally do not rate either
> very highly, the former looks muddled and the latter, to which I assume
> you refer, has a sad little check where the "c" looks as though it has
> been extended slightly clumsily.  I also find the design a bit slack and
> would criticise it for appearing to refer to the traditional @ sign,
> which is really in modern use entirely related to email in most people's
> minds, and for concentrating on 'nic' in preference to 'open'.
> 
> However, I only started doodling other ideas following the earlier
> discussion about the big shiny logo on the new site opennicproject.org
> (incidentally that site enforces the spurious www subdomain).  I agreed 
> that this new logo was too big but also thought it too stuffy, more like
> a minor motor manufacturer from 1980.  So I did a bit of sketching, and
> posted my thoughts.  I am happy to put in a bit more work if people want
> it, and I believe the previous designs were weak, but I am not pushing
> the idea.
> 
> richard
I would see it pretty much the same way, good arguments.

As an idea concerning this point:
> The logotype can be seen as a node in the corner, or as a small 'o'
> overlapping the capital 'N', or as some sort of highlight.  It serves
> as a unique identifying detail obviously.
One could try to place that node in the corner in such a way at the "N"
or the "C", that it starts the "open" as an "o". A very simple example
is attached (only one of several possibilities!).

Regards sjeap

Am 16.06.2012 20:33, schrieb Richard Lyons:
> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 20:22:27 +0200, sjeap wrote:
> 
>> > 
>>> > > I have also shown a very rough idea to further open the 'o' -- a bit
>>> > > more like the old logo.
>> > So the bottommost one at the left side
>> > (https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B0D2_zh4skGSd0xwRTI0RXJLNEU/edit?pli=1&docId=0B0D2_zh4skGSTFdqRzkyQXdJSFk)
>> > seems to me like a start of integrating the old logo's partial open
>> > circle (http://wiki.opennic.glue/), after all.
> Yes, that was the point.  So far I don't much like the result, but I
> shall have another look if people are wedded to the idea.
> 
> richard

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Betreff: Re: [opennic-discuss] OpenNIC website
Datum: Sat, 16 Jun 2012 20:22:27 +0200
Von: sjeap <sjeap AT lavabit.com>
Antwort an: discuss AT lists.opennicproject.org
An: discuss AT lists.opennicproject.org
>>>> >> > What looks a little too fancy is the color. What is the expected
>>>> >> > perceiption of it? I mean, colors are great. But they age and come 
>>>> >> > out
>>>> >> > of style. Could your concept work with more conservative choice of
>>>> >> > color or even without colors?
>> > My view is that the colour is optional, and need not be immutable.  I
>> > would use it when colour was available and choose a colour to match
>> > whatever else was in the context.  We could change it with the seasons,
>> > or the average temperature of the surface of the earth, or whatever.
> It's not that insignificant. Based on color effects, different colors
> have different effects on users. To be a reliable alternative to ICANN,
> one should consider some (not to bright) variations of blue, as this
> classically implies clean, fresh, trustworthy or serious.
> 
>> > I have also shown a very rough idea to further open the 'o' -- a bit
>> > more like the old logo.
> So the bottommost one at the left side
> (https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B0D2_zh4skGSd0xwRTI0RXJLNEU/edit?pli=1&docId=0B0D2_zh4skGSTFdqRzkyQXdJSFk)
> seems to me like a start of integrating the old logo's partial open
> circle (http://wiki.opennic.glue/), after all.
> 
>> > Did you check
>> > that the fonts are free or under a license so that they can be used by
>> > the project?
> Good point, should be considered.
> 
> Regards sjeap
> 
> Am 16.06.2012 18:56, schrieb Richard Lyons:
>> > I had been fiddling with it again, of course, when Falk's mail came in.
>> > I have simplified the shapes of the 'e' and 'n'.  I have also moved the
>> > "node" to the junction of "open" with "NIC"  -- the point at which
>> > "open" plugs in.  
>> > 
>> > I would keep the option to use either the two-line or the one-line
>> > version, depending on context.  The isolated small logotype with the
>> > node attached to the N can be read as oN, which sounds positive, and is
>> > the initials for Open Nic.  
>> > 
>> > The position of the node in the small logotype can be top left, even if
>> > the node slides to the two other locations when the whole logo is drawn.
>> > They are clearly all the same family.  Alternatively the node can be
>> > left centre in both the single-line version and the small logotype, and
>> > slide to the top only when the two-line version is used.  It should not
>> > be at the top for the small logotype, since then it reads "No", which is
>> > negative, and not the right order for Open Nic
>> > 
>> > On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 17:21:53 +0200, Falk Husemann wrote:
>> > 
>> > [...]
>>> >> your try to express openness and networking looks good.
>>> >>
>>> >> I especially like the tries in thoughts3.pdf in the bottom on the left.
>>> >> The open o really works out. Also the try with shadow/extrusion (on the
>>> >> big N) works and gives the logo a little more plasticity.
>> > 
>> > I think the small check in the joint of the letters NIC is an artefact
>> > from the conversion to pdf or the rendering by google or by the browser.
>> > It was not intended.  I could look at a 3d effect, though I dont feel it
>> > is lacking.
>> > 
>>> >>
>>> >> What looks a little too fancy is the color. What is the expected
>>> >> perceiption of it? I mean, colors are great. But they age and come out
>>> >> of style. Could your concept work with more conservative choice of
>>> >> color or even without colors?
>> > 
>> > My view is that the colour is optional, and need not be immutable.  I
>> > would use it when colour was available and choose a colour to match
>> > whatever else was in the context.  We could change it with the seasons,
>> > or the average temperature of the surface of the earth, or whatever. It
>> > has the advantage of adding focus, and emphasising the connection point
>> > between open and NIC.
>> > 
>> > I have added some colourless samples on the sketch thoughts4.pdf at the
>> > same URL
>> > https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B0D2_zh4skGSd0xwRTI0RXJLNEU/edit
>> > 
>> > I have also shown a very rough idea to further open the 'o' -- a bit
>> > more like the old logo.  I do not much like this at the moment.
>> > 
>> > richard
> Am 16.06.2012 17:21, schrieb Falk Husemann:
>> > Hi there,
>> > 
>> > your try to express openness and networking looks good.
>> > 
>> > I especially like the tries in thoughts3.pdf in the bottom on the left.
>> > The open o really works out. Also the try with shadow/extrusion (on the
>> > big N) works and gives the logo a little more plasticity.
>> > 
>> > What looks a little too fancy is the color. What is the expected
>> > perceiption of it? I mean, colors are great. But they age and come out
>> > of style. Could your concept work with more conservative choice of
>> > color or even without colors?
>> > 
>> > My employer uses this since the 70's:
>> > 
>> > <http://irb.cs.tu-dortmund.de/images/IRB2.gif>
>> > 
>> > Keep up the great work! You seem to have a plan =)
>> > 
>> > Greets,
>> > Falk
> Am 16.06.2012 17:17, schrieb Richard Lyons:
>>>> >> > Could you check the links, please?
>> > Can't understand what happened there.  It worked last night.  Maybe
>> > because I was just switched to google's "drive" from "documents"
>> > 
>> > Try this:
>> > https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B0D2_zh4skGSd0xwRTI0RXJLNEU/edit
>> > 
>> > It should be a folder with both the earlier and later versions.
>> > 
>> > richard
> Am 16.06.2012 14:14, schrieb sjeap:
>> > Hello Richard,
>> > 
>> > Could you check the links, please?
>> > 
>> > Regards sjeap
>> > 
>> > Am 16.06.2012 00:21, schrieb Richard Lyons:
>>>> >> > curses.  I forgot to give the new url.
>>>> >> > 
>>>> >> > It is
>>>> >> > 
>>>> >> >     https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0D2_zh4skGSWWlDWWRucGtYVXM/
>>>> >> > 
>>>> >> > On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 20:02:24 +0100, Richard Lyons wrote:
>>>> >> > 
>>>>>> >>> >> On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 17:03:03 +0200, sjeap wrote:
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>>> >>> These are some good drafts for the logo, nice work. I would 
>>>>>>>> >>>> >>> like to
>>>>>>>> >>>> >>> propose a combination of the second bottommost one at the 
>>>>>>>> >>>> >>> left side
>>>>>>>> >>>> >>> (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0D2_zh4skGSelBVdTFNbUM4U1E/)
>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>  and the
>>>>>>>> >>>> >>> logo's partial open circle (http://wiki.opennic.glue/). 
>>>>>>>> >>>> >>> That would look
>>>>>>>> >>>> >>> much better than the current (really huge) one at
>>>>>>>> >>>> >>> http://www.opennicproject.org/.
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> I don't immediately see how to combine the style of the two 
>>>>>> >>> >> logos.  
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> However, I have made a couple of minor changes:
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> I have "opened" the "o" and also added the corresponding 
>>>>>> >>> >> version in a
>>>>>> >>> >> single line.  The lower left hand box contains the normal 
>>>>>> >>> >> reversed and
>>>>>> >>> >> single-line versions of that idea, and the "oN" logotype in the 
>>>>>> >>> >> bottom
>>>>>> >>> >> right would be its favicon, avatar, symbol mode. The shape is
>>>>>> >>> >> sufficiently idiosyncratic that all versions could be used in
>>>>>> >>> >> appropriate circumstances.  The logotype can be seen as a node 
>>>>>> >>> >> in the
>>>>>> >>> >> corner, or as a small 'o' overlapping the capital 'N', or as 
>>>>>> >>> >> some sort
>>>>>> >>> >> of highlight.  It serves as a unique identifying detail 
>>>>>> >>> >> obviously. 
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> In this example, I have also reduced the sixe of the "NIC" 
>>>>>> >>> >> slightly,
>>>>>> >>> >> only in the reverse (white-on-black) version.  If this idea were
>>>>>> >>> >> persued, that would probably be a good idea.
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> Anyway, I won't waste any more time on that doodle unless 
>>>>>> >>> >> people think
>>>>>> >>> >> it is worth refining.  Some of the spacing is crap. 
>>>> >> > 
>>>> >> > The doodle is here
>>>> >> > https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0D2_zh4skGSWWlDWWRucGtYVXM/
>>>> >> > 
>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>>> >>> >> richard
>> > -------- Original-Nachricht --------
>> > Betreff: Re: [opennic-discuss] OpenNIC website
>> > Datum: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:03:03 +0200
>> > Von: sjeap <sjeap AT lavabit.com>
>> > Antwort an: discuss AT lists.opennicproject.org
>> > An: discuss AT lists.opennicproject.org
>>>> >> > These are some good drafts for the logo, nice work. I would like to
>>>> >> > propose a combination of the second bottommost one at the left side
>>>> >> > (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0D2_zh4skGSelBVdTFNbUM4U1E/) and 
>>>> >> > the
>>>> >> > logo's partial open circle (http://wiki.opennic.glue/). That would 
>>>> >> > look
>>>> >> > much better than the current (really huge) one at
>>>> >> > http://www.opennicproject.org/.
>>>> >> > 
>>>> >> > Regards sjeap
>>>> >> > 
>>>> >> > Am 15.06.2012 12:46, schrieb Richard Lyons:
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> > On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 11:20:48 +0100, Peter Green wrote:
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> > 
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >> I'm happy to have a go at replacing the new logo 
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >> with an updated old one, I agree, it would be 
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >> better.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> > 
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> > Has someone got the old one handy?  
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> > 
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> > I was pondering along other lines, following comments on 
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> > another thread
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> > and did a couple of preliminary doodles
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >     
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> > https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0D2_zh4skGSelBVdTFNbUM4U1E
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> > 
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> > My intentions being 
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> > 
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >  1 to express "open" in a rather simplistic way
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> > 
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >  2 to have am extractable mini-logo for favicons, etc.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> > 
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >  3 in the later doodles to express "network" (also in a 
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> > simplistic way)
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> > 
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> > I don't know if that is useful to anybody.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> > 
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> > Richard

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