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[Jonah Aragon <jonaharagon AT gmail.com>]

> Good luck retaining other people whom volunteer hardware if you tell them they have to do it for free and without compensation. 

Pretty sure we've been doing that literally since OpenNIC was founded. 

>  What gives you the right to make money off my data transfer that costs me? 

To quote myself: 

> > T1/TLD operators generally have to run DNS authoritative zones, T2 servers, registry services, and other websites; all of which cost money, because computing is hardly free. TLD operators put in a lot more money and effort into the project than T2 maintainers 

My stance is that OpenNIC shouldn't be FORCING anyone to do anything. You make it sound like I'm proposing T1 operators 'steal' money from everyone while T2 operators aren't allowed to make any money off the network.

I'm saying that IF a TLD operator wants to charge for their domains that's their business, and T2 operators can go ahead and ask for donations/whatever if they want, no problem.

If OpenNIC ever wants to be a serious alternative for the DNS system everyone will kind of need to accept some basic facts here, we can't exactly go about doing everything for free for everyone forever if our userbase grew. We have an opportunity to not make mistakes ICANN made, but charging for domains was not one of those.

Like I said, at the moment there's no reason for anyone to charge for domains because OpenNIC is, at best, a internet-community project, and a small one at that. But I don't think it's in the organization's beliefs that we should be intentionally limiting any parties, and if a TLD operator wants to charge for domains there shouldn't be anything preventing that, policy-wise.

Jonah

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 7:39 PM Maiyannah Bishop <maiyannah AT highlandarrow.com> wrote:

Good luck retaining other people whom volunteer hardware if you tell them they have to do it for free and without compensation.  I'd have no problem just switching off my T2 server just as quickly as I set it up if OpenNIC took that kind of stance.  What gives you the right to make money off my data transfer that costs me?

-mb

On 2016-12-07 22:28, Jonah Aragon wrote:

I agree... I don't think charging for domains is in any sense selling a "gift given to you"

T1/TLD operators generally have to run DNS authoritative zones, T2 servers, registry services, and other websites; all of which cost money, because computing is hardly free. TLD operators put in a lot more money and effort into the project than T2 maintainers and they should be able to charge for their services they alone provide.

From a common sense perspective at the moment, it makes no sense to charge for domains because OpenNIC--while being the largest alt-root--still has no significant usage in the real world. But OpenNIC as a project should not be about limiting the rights of TLD operators; and it shouldn't force the distribution of said earnings among all contributors to the project either.

Jonah

Note: This isn't to discourage people from running Tier 2 servers, the infrastructure requires them to stay running. I'm simply stating that at a basic level a TLD operator will have a lot more expenses to maintain than a T2 operator, and deserve the ability to create revenue to match.

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 7:10 PM <spaesani AT mail.com> wrote:

Ole they have to operate a t2 nameserver to request the tld .
Further, to promote their tld , if its accepted, they have to work at opening up DNS access.
All for free.
I fail to see how this is free loading or taking without giving.
I think instead you're a little angry at the expenses you and possibly other members have incurred in relation to what you seem to be suggesting is a lesser investment by tld operators.
If that's the case I'd suggest you put forward a DNS rootz  operation costs assessment or estimation so we can get a good idea of what we're looking at.

--
Sent from myMail app for Android

Wednesday, 07 December 2016, 07:34PM -05:00 from <vv AT cgs.pw>:

I would tend to agree with you. I'm not sure, however,
that the people who are proposing to charge for domains
are clear on the fact that they are completely
dependent on the hard work and expense offered by
others who are doing it for free. How do these people
feel about others collecting money based on their work?
In a sense, charging for domains is taking a gift that
has been freely given to you and then turning around
and selling it.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this,
but rather just trying to put this discussion in
some perspective.

To me everybody's work has value. But that one group
gets money and other groups don't would not sit well
with me.

Regards,
        Ole

On Wed, 7 Dec 2016 18:54:25 -0500
Maiyannah Bishop <maiyannah.bishop AT postactiv.com> wrote:

> This is the fundamental "problem" with paid services on
> OpenNIC - but it's not an unsolvable one, if someone
> wanted to come up with a fair compensation system. I'm
> indifferent when it comes to gratis versus paid - I'm
> okay with paid domains and I'm okay with free ones, in
> principle, though I think it would be very hard to
> actually monetize OpenNIC domains in the current
> ecosystem. But if we do have paid systems, nameserver
> operators whom wish compensated for the traffic on their
> servers, should be compensated. -mb
>
> On 2016-12-07 18:38, vv AT cgs.pw wrote:
> > How much of that fee goes to nameserver operators?
> >
> > ~ Ole
> >
> > On Wed, 07 Dec 2016 23:02:42 +0100
> > Hunter 9999 <mail AT hunter-9999.de> wrote:
> >
> >> I DO think OpenNIC should to be free and SHOULD mandate
> >> that on their domains. We tell on our website, that we
> >> are free, also free of cost (gratis) and for me this
> >> includes the registration of domain. As stated before
> >> by someone we should only require for paying for
> >> additional services.
> >
> >
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