Discuss mailing list

[<vv AT cgs.pw>]

Well that is just a fact of life and there is
nothing we can do about it. Trust is always
a problem. The only thing we can do is what
we're doing now, and that is to mark the
servers that use a blacklist and rely on
the accuracy of the information that the
operator provides in that regard.

~ Ole


On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 07:17:02 -0400 (EDT)
"Daniel Quintiliani" <danq AT runbox.com> wrote:

> If every server has its own secret blacklist, OpenNIC
> would be broken and inconsistent. There is no way to tell
> whether microsoft.com actually isn't working or if the
> server owner is just being moralistic.
> 
> --
> 
> -Dan Q
> 
> 
> On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:00:50 -0600, 'smee
> <overthefalls AT opengroupware.ch> wrote:
> 
> > Of course it makes sense for network admins anywhere to
> > block sites or domains based on various possible
> > criteria, but that is a totally different thing than a
> > dns provider (especially one with 'open' in it's name)
> > implementing a censorship program. 
> > 
> > I don't like malware distributors or other bad players
> > any better than anyone else. But if we're blocking
> > malware, a solid case could be made for blocking
> > microsoft, google, etc. Who makes the decision what to
> > block, and where does it stop?
> > 
> > Personally on my own network, where these decisions
> > should be made, I choose who to trust and who not to
> > trust, and I configure my firewall and dns settings
> > accordingly. 
> > 
> > On Sun, 2019-06-30 at 20:39 -0400, Rouben wrote:  
> > > University of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Not sure if
> > > Net Neutrality is mandated in Canada, but I’d like to
> > > think that it’s a fairly liberal country. I know for
> > > a fact that our central IT group filters domains of
> > > sites (entire zones) that host phishing sites
> > > targeting the University's
> > > authentication infrastructure. Alternatively they
> > > block outgoing traffic to
> > > such hosts by IP at the edge. That’s just one example
> > > and common practice.
> > > Here’s a more comprehensive list (specifics require
> > > University credentials
> > > - UTORid- to access).
> > > 
> > > On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 20:17 Daniel Quintiliani
> > > <danq AT runbox.com> wrote:
> > >   
> > > > Even in countries which mandate net neutrality?
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > 
> > > > -Dan Q
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 17:07:51 -0700, <vv AT cgs.pw>
> > > > wrote: 
> > > > > I think you're wrong about that. A quick google
> > > > > and you'll see that DNS filtering is actually
> > > > > quite common.
> > > > > 
> > > > > ~ Ole
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 18:56:32 -0400 (EDT)
> > > > > "Daniel Quintiliani" <danq AT runbox.com> wrote:
> > > > >   
> > > > > > No ISP in the free world does this with their
> > > > > > DNS servers. Why should we?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > -Dan Q
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 15:58:11 -0500, kevin
> > > > > > <krattai AT gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >   
> > > > > > > The problem here was, spamhaus painted ALL
> > > > > > > opennic peers with a broad brush.  So those
> > > > > > > that won't filter anything, which I fully
> > > > > > > support, could potentially affect everyone.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > As many, if not most of us here appear to
> > > > > > > believe, this project has always been about
> > > > > > > freedom with collaboration via a touch of
> > > > > > > democracy (voting) thrown in. And I believe
> > > > > > > that everyone can (and will) do as they
> > > > > > > please.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > But...  and so to repeat, those that filter
> > > > > > > nothing (including malware) could affect all
> > > > > > > of us.  And like the .free domain, I don't
> > > > > > > care and would have preferred to keep it
> > > > > > > under openNIC.  But, not everyone agrees with
> > > > > > > what I think. lol  So filtering, at least for
> > > > > > > malware, certainly could be suggested as a
> > > > > > > strong guideline or recommendation. And my
> > > > > > > opinion with anything else, obviously leave
> > > > > > > that to the individual T2 hosts.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Kevin
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On Sun, 2019-06-30 at 12:05 +0200, Amunak
> > > > > > > wrote:  
> > > > > > > > Why? The T2 server list is capable of
> > > > > > > > displaying and filtering pretty
> > > > > > > > much anything. Some T2 server providers may
> > > > > > > > choose to run more blacklists, some may
> > > > > > > > choose to run none. That's their decision
> > > > > > > > and as long as they say so in their
> > > > > > > > server's description then more power to
> > > > > > > > everyone - the whole point of sharing T2
> > > > > > > > servers is to provide a service to other
> > > > > > > > users who have an interest in that service
> > > > > > > > *with that particular configuration*. Same
> > > > > > > > goes for logging and such.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Sure, don't show it on the homepage among
> > > > > > > > "recommended servers" but there's no reason
> > > > > > > > to essentially blacklist those servers and
> > > > > > > > operators from OpenNic.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Amunak
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > On 30.06.2019 1:55, Jacob Bachmeyer wrote:  
> > > > > > > > > Jeff Taylor wrote:  
> > > > > > > > > > It could relate to any domains, opennic
> > > > > > > > > > or icann.  And I'm not saying
> > > > > > > > > > we WILL, I'm just saying we COULD have
> > > > > > > > > > that option.  Like with the
> > > > > > > > > > spamhaus listings, use of this would be
> > > > > > > > > > up to the individual T2 operators.  At
> > > > > > > > > > the moment there is nothing planned, I
> > > > > > > > > > just wrote the API so we could expand
> > > > > > > > > > on its use later if we chose to.  
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > I suggest a policy restricting the use of
> > > > > > > > > non-malware blacklists to
> > > > > > > > > private T2 servers.  In other words, T2
> > > > > > > > > servers using blacklists for
> > > > > > > > > any category other than malware would not
> > > > > > > > > be eligible to be listed in
> > > > > > > > > the public directory.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > We might even want to require public T2
> > > > > > > > > servers to blacklist known malware
> > > > > > > > > domains, but that is sure to be highly
> > > > > > > > > controversial. Should we censor
> > > > > > > > > ransomware?
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > -- Jacob
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > --------
> > > > > > > > > You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss
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> > > > > > > > 
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> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > http://ca.linkedin.com/in/kevinrattai/
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > https://winnipegcryptoconference.com/
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > https://github.com/krattai
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
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> > > > > 
> > > > > 
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> > > > 
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