Discuss mailing list

[<vv AT cgs.pw>]

I guess your post is meant in response to something
completely different than my note to Matthias about
the appropriateness of using our mailing list for spam.

Good point otherwise. :)

Regards,
        Ole


On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 02:28:50 -0500
Rouben <rouben AT rouben.net> wrote:

> You're assuming anti-Net Neutrality blocking would be
> implemented through DNS. I very much doubt it... when it
> was done in the past, it was implemented by reducing
> bandwidth to certain networks that didn't "pay up" for
> premium bandwidth, e.g. Netflix. See
> https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/20/14960154/netflix-net-neutrality-stances-timeline
> 
> 
> Rouben
> 
> On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 2:01 AM, <vv AT cgs.pw> wrote:
> 
> > Matthias,
> >
> > If your service is completely free it is appropriate
> > to offer it here. If you charge money, it is in very
> > bad taste to do what you're doing. I don't think I'm
> > the only one who's shocked by your behaviour. :)
> >
> > Regards,
> >         Ole
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 04:52:32 +0000
> > Matthias Merkel <matthias AT boltn-hosting.com> wrote:
> >  
> > > Our subcompany Clear Skies UG could do that.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Dec 14, 2017, 11:57 PM Christopher
> > > <weblionx AT gmail.com> wrote:
> > >  
> > > > Regarding ease of use, I would agree it's a bit of a
> > > > stumbling block for us. DNS is... weird and tricky,
> > > > at best. I think you raise a salient point about
> > > > getting ISPs and network administrators involved,
> > > > as they control DNS for a large number of users,
> > > > but that does not help with visibility.
> > > >
> > > > Still, there was at least one app out there (no
> > > > idea if it's still maintained, not something I've
> > > > personally kept up on) to automatically select the
> > > > best DNS servers and configure the OS to use them.
> > > > I know there was one for Windows and I think there
> > > > may have been one for Linux in the works? Someone
> > > > else probably knows better than I do. It may also
> > > > be on the wiki. In the past these sorts of efforts
> > > > are usually hampered by there not being any good OS
> > > > APIs for configuring these sorts of things, not to
> > > > mention even being able to get a list of DNS
> > > > servers to start if DNS isn't already working to at
> > > > least some degree (and not blocked at that). I'm
> > > > curious as to the current state of these efforts
> > > > and if maybe it's something worth picking up again.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 3:33 PM, kevin
> > > > <krattai AT gmail.com> wrote:  
> > > > > From a service provider and organizational
> > > > > perspective, it's certainly all about user
> > > > > adoption. From a user perspective, it's quite
> > > > > likely all about ease of use.
> > > > >
> > > > > I looked for an alternative because it is what I
> > > > > wanted for personal use as well as for my project.
> > > > > OpenNIC is easy enough for someone with a bit of
> > > > > tech savvy, but not necessarily for the average
> > > > > person.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm sure that for your purposes, this is something
> > > > > you already understand, but I'm putting this out
> > > > > there as a reminder for everyone that just because
> > > > > it's built, doesn't mean people will flock to
> > > > > it.  My project integrates OpenNIC peering, so
> > > > > the user need do nothing.
> > > > >
> > > > > With that said, for your own use, it's easy enough
> > > > > and go for it.  If you are going to want to
> > > > > attract a large user base, then there has to be
> > > > > either very simple instructions for someone
> > > > > motivated enough to change their DNS settings in
> > > > > the computer, or there _should_ be some volunteer
> > > > > based support system in place which is user
> > > > > friendly, to support people to migrate and in a
> > > > > way that has appropriate cost benefit.
> > > > >
> > > > > I run two unique public DNS servers, so my
> > > > > customers use those, which gives access to
> > > > > OpenNIC domains. That means that I generally have
> > > > > to set those customers up myself, and it's only
> > > > > fair to offload the DNS to my servers, rather
> > > > > that overloading a peer on OpenNIC directly.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would say that from a grass roots perspective,
> > > > > the best results towards adoption would be to
> > > > > promote to network admins and secondary (W)ISPs.
> > > > >
> > > > > Otherwise, I'm sure that help with docs, docs, and
> > > > > more docs and then pointing people to the
> > > > > resources with appropriate valuation depending on
> > > > > market demographics will be the way to continue
> > > > > growth directly from the end user.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope some of that helps or is informative.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > >
> > > > > Kevin
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, 2017-12-14 at 14:27 -0500, Alex Nuta
> > > > > wrote:  
> > > > >> Good to hear from you, Kevin.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> What I need most is to get up to speed and find
> > > > >> out what is needed most, and what I can
> > > > >> contribute to the project. Obviously it goes
> > > > >> without saying that I can run a few servers, as
> > > > >> a volunteer. I also think I can help get the
> > > > >> word out to spur adoption, especially now, as
> > > > >> people are hearing more and more about internet
> > > > >> censorship, block lists and repeal of Net
> > > > >> Neutrality. The time is right to communicate on
> > > > >> this project.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> For example, I could add a Tier 1 or Tier 2
> > > > >> server in the datacenter ( I lease from OVH
> > > > >> situated in Beauharnois, QC they have great
> > > > >> connectivity.) , I have a dedicated line with
> > > > >> fixed IPs for my home office, where I can put
> > > > >> another server, although on a more modest 60Mbps
> > > > >> symmetric connection that drops once or twice a
> > > > >> year.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I'm not sure what's needed most at this junction.
> > > > >> I appreciate any pointers on maximizing my
> > > > >> contribution.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Alex Nuta
> > > > >> alex.nuta AT protonmail.com
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Sent from ProtonMail, encrypted email based in
> > > > >> Switzerland. Join for free and get highly secure
> > > > >> email.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>  
> > > > >> > -------- Original Message --------
> > > > >> > Subject: Re: [opennic-discuss] OpenNIC
> > > > >> > Local Time: December 14, 2017 2:17 PM
> > > > >> > UTC Time: December 14, 2017 7:17 PM
> > > > >> > From: krattai AT gmail.com
> > > > >> > To: discuss AT lists.opennicproject.org
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Greetz from another canuck, Alex.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I've been actively using OpenNIC since jan 2015
> > > > >> > for similar reasons and
> > > > >> > via a similar path it seems.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I'm not opposed to joining efforts as I've been
> > > > >> > working on a unique,
> > > > >> > p2p / distributed DNS for one of my projects,
> > > > >> > as well, using OpenNIC as
> > > > >> > a T2 for that.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > At this time, I recommend OpenNIC as certainly
> > > > >> > one of the best alternatives out there.  I
> > > > >> > just don't like all my eggs in one basket,
> > > > >> > especially if a project like this were to
> > > > >> > become just another rules and
> > > > >> > regulations heavy, restrictive org.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Personally, I remain committed to finding or
> > > > >> > building a publicly valuable and easily usable
> > > > >> > open, user managed, peer oriented, self healing
> > > > >> > and perpetuating infrastructure.  I'm always
> > > > >> > interested in discussing further.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Cheers,
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Kevin
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > On Thu, 2017-12-14 at 10:29 -0500, Alex Nuta
> > > > >> > wrote: Greetings from Canada.
> > > > >> > I found this project because, before creating
> > > > >> > it myself, I wanted to
> > > > >> > see if someone had beat me to it. Well done.
> > > > >> > I decided to do this myself following the news
> > > > >> > that several top telecommunications
> > > > >> > corporations in Canada are planning to create
> > > > >> > a blocking list with no oversight or
> > > > >> > supervision controlled by three major players
> > > > >> > in the telecommunication and content
> > > > >> > production market.  They are currently
> > > > >> > lobbying government to discuss the matter in
> > > > >> > secret talks as part of international
> > > > >> > treaties. Yes, we've seen this before. Yes,
> > > > >> > they're at it again. I have no doubt that
> > > > >> > sooner or later, one of these initiatives will
> > > > >> > pass in the US or Canada, and soon. Ostensibly
> > > > >> > these measures are intended to curb copyright
> > > > >> > infringement, but behind it, it's fairly
> > > > >> > clear, is to create an uneven playing field in
> > > > >> > the content providing business heavily stacked
> > > > >> > in favour of the companies controlling the
> > > > >> > block list, and turn the Internet into Cable
> > > > >> > TV all over again. And, in my opinion, it
> > > > >> > won't stop there. The Quebec provincial
> > > > >> > government has already asked that all gambling
> > > > >> > sites be blocked province-wide, putting up a
> > > > >> > fence, in effect, since it has a local
> > > > >> > monopoly on gambling through its commercial
> > > > >> > Loto-Quebec venture, next will likely be
> > > > >> > alcohol sales, since the Quebec government
> > > > >> > assumed a monopoly on alcohol sales
> > > > >> > province-wide, and I can easily see
> > > > >> > governments labelling dissidents and other
> > > > >> > social activists with some kind of terminology
> > > > >> > which gets them on the block list to silence
> > > > >> > dissent. Together the top three corporations
> > > > >> > involved control 50% of the ISP market in
> > > > >> > Canada. In this context, OpenNIC becomes a
> > > > >> > potential solution, and I intend to publicize
> > > > >> > it to my social media audience (mainly nerds,
> > > > >> > systems administrators, networking specialists
> > > > >> > and social activists.) I would be interested
> > > > >> > in any available less technical information,
> > > > >> > infographics, or similar materials to educate
> > > > >> > the non-technical among the group to stimulate
> > > > >> > end-user adoption. I'll make my own if nothing
> > > > >> > like this is available. I will also set up a
> > > > >> > few servers ASAP, after reviewing the
> > > > >> > documentation, one located at my office, one
> > > > >> > in my home office and another in my data
> > > > >> > centre. Also, I work in marketing, and if I
> > > > >> > can lend assistance in that department to get
> > > > >> > the word out, please let me know. Thanks in
> > > > >> > advance. Alex Nuta alex.nuta AT protonmail.com
> > > > >> > Sent from ProtonMail, encrypted email based in
> > > > >> > Switzerland. Join for free and get highly
> > > > >> > secure email.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list.
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> > > > >> > ect.org
> > > > >> > --
> > > > >> > http://ca.linkedin.com/in/kevinrattai/
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > https://plus.google.com/+KevinRattai/
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > https://community.spiceworks.com/people/kevinrattai
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
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