Discuss mailing list

[dc0 <dc0 AT riseup.net>]

If anything, a BB-like forum such as phpBB or SMF is probably a more
organised solution than Discourse.

On 04/12/16 18:15, Alex Nordlund wrote:
> Has anyone suggested discourse yet? 
> 
> On 4 Dec 2016 6:19 p.m., "Jonah Aragon" <jonaharagon AT gmail.com
> <mailto:jonaharagon AT gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     While it's certainly not ideal, the mailing list's archive page has
>     rudimentary functions for browsing
>     (https://lists.opennicproject.org/sympa/arc/discuss/2016-12/
>     <https://lists.opennicproject.org/sympa/arc/discuss/2016-12/>) and
>     replying to posts from the website. That is, if you really desire a
>     web interface for some reason.
> 
>     I don't think a forum is necessary and it would encourage apathy
>     towards the project for the reasons a few people have already
>     mentioned here and on IRC, the nature of mailing lists is a push
>     notification style of message, while forum posts you have to seek
>     out yourself. It would stop the frequent reminders to participate
>     that some people need. For example: Yesterday. We had a surge in
>     mailing list posts following the .o approval and some other various
>     discussions about infrastructure and the future of .free, and that's
>     only because every time someone initiated a conversation the mailing
>     list actively pulled new opinions in.
> 
>     The mailing list currently suits our needs quite nicely and I see no
>     reason to fix something that isn't broken.
> 
>     Jonah
> 
>     On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 6:12 AM Aaron J. Angel <aaron.angel AT gmail.com
>     <mailto:aaron.angel AT gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>         The obvious solution is to integrate two. I imagine could easily
>         add the ability to send/post to the archive. I too have no
>         interest in going to a web-based forum to check and read posts.
>         I'd probably drop out completely if that were the case.
> 
> 
>         On Sun, Dec 4, 2016, 7:06 AM Philipp Schafft
>         <lion AT lion.leolix.org <mailto:lion AT lion.leolix.org>> wrote:
> 
>             Good morning,
> 
>             by the way, I'm not a fan of the taste of TOFU.
> 
> 
>             On Sun, 2016-12-04 at 02:20 -0800, vv AT cgs.pw
>             <mailto:vv AT cgs.pw> wrote:
>             > Well I don't think we'll lose anybody. :)
>             > Those of us who don't prefer mailing lists
>             > are currently using the mailing list with
>             > only a modicum of griping. :)
> 
> 
>             > I doubt there
>             > is anybody here who will not use a forum on
>             > principle, or because of technical or
>             > accessibility issues.
> 
>             Considering myself, yes, we would.
> 
> 
>             > That said, when it comes to talking about
>             > the number of people, I'd say that mailing
>             > lists don't really scale very well. It's fine
>             > with a few people and a few posts a day. But
>             > when it comes to larger numbers then a forum
>             > can handle any amount with ease. The ML had
>             > over 80 messages today, I think.
> 
>             Sure. Why don't you filter out the mails you don't like? My
>             MUA offers
>             that I flag a thread and then I can follow that and ignore other
>             threads.
> 
> 
>             > Also, I would point out that forums do not
>             > need to have a huge amount of graphics and
>             > stuff that distracts. In fact they can be
>             > very business like. Here is one that I set
>             > up some years ago, but abandoned. One good
>             > feature is that it has sections that are
>             > not visible unless you are logged in. And
>             > there is also a section that only certain
>             > listed members can see, which can be of use
>             > for administrative use.
>             >    http://ykix.org
>             > I show that only as an example of readability
>             > and proof of concept that light grey text is
>             > not a given and there is actually no technical
>             > need to make us older folks feel unwelcome.
>             > The CSS on forums is easy to change to anything
>             > you want.
> 
> 
>             > Another thing about forums is the personal
>             > message function. You can do conversations
>             > in the background as PM without others reading
>             > them. This is not just a privacy thing, but
>             > helps keep the general communication clean when
>             > what you want to say is either off topic or
>             > personal comment.
> 
>             I perfectly can do that with the same MUA as I do for the
>             list. In fact
>             I have two buttons, one to answer to the list and one for a
>             personal
>             reply that is not going to the list.
> 
>             And that perfectly works without breaking threading ;)
> 
> 
> 
>             > Note too, that on a forum, other people don't
>             > see your email address. This is particularly
>             > important in a public setting where people will
>             > be finding us through search engines. So even
>             > though the public can read the messages and
>             > learn from them, they cannot spam you. This
>             > makes a forum a little like the best of both
>             > IRC and ML.
> 
> 
>             > As it is now there is a curious aspect to the
>             > way we are communicating. We are hiding from
>             > the public. Yes, with some work, our conversations
>             > can be found, but they are not going to come up
>             > in Duckduckgo or Google when someone is searching
>             > for OpenNIC information. A forum becomes a public
>             > record and shows transparency.
> 
>             Or a list archive.
> 
> 
>             This is my most important point:
>             Forums are always PULL based. So you need to invest time to
>             actually
>             find out there is nothing new that is relevant to you.
>             MLs are PUSH. I'm informed when there is a new message.
>             (Please do not
>             answer with 'but you can enable e-mail notifications!', yes.
>             I could do.
>             r I could also just get the message by email and not being
>             spammed with
>             mails that have no value on their own.)
> 
>             My experience is that those few people who really run the
>             infrastructure
>             are short on time. Exactly because they run it all. And
>             often not for
>             just one project. You may gain Tom and Jack from the street.
>             But you
>             will likely loose those who really run the infrastructure.
>             The number of
>             users increasing doesn't mean the user actually bringing a
>             project
>             increase as well.
> 
>             That being my personal opinion based on many years of work
>             in similar
>             projects. Also I'm not going to push this too much. OpenNIC
>             inner
>             politics aren't my business. But I think that moving off the
>             operative
>             aspects into a forum could harm the peering as information
>             would stop
>             flowing.
> 
>             If you want a forum just for the Tom and Jack, little
>             chatting, doing
>             some end user support or whatever that is not really about
>             operative
>             aspects or voting I don't care at all.
> 
>             (my problem with voting is that with a forum I will no
>             longer have a
>             copy of it. With ML you can actually have a significant,
>             digitally
>             signed copy of the result. With a forum you need to trust
>             that the
>             operator will keep the information up and correct for as
>             long as you may
>             need it. Depending on stuff that may for legal reasons be
>             many years.)
> 
>             Have a nice day,
> 
>             with best regards,
> 
> 
>             > Regards,
>             >         Ole Juul
>             >
>             >
>             > On Sun, 04 Dec 2016 09:11:03 +0000
>             > Philipp Schafft <lion AT lion.leolix.org
>             <mailto:lion AT lion.leolix.org>> wrote:
>             >
>             > > Good morning,
>             > >
>             > > On Sun, 2016-12-04 at 05:38 +0000, dc0 wrote:
>             > > > This sounds like a great idea honestly and could make
>             > > > discussions related to OpenNIC more assessable to those
>             > > > who are allergic to mailing lists.
>             > >
>             > > And loose all those allergic to forums ;)
>             > >
>             > > with best regards,
> 
> 
>             --
>             Philipp.
>              (Rah of PH2)
> 
> 
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-- 
Jason

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