Discuss mailing list

[joe williams <joethelilman AT hotmail.com>]

PLEASE STOP MAILING ME

I have asked many times.

I don’t know who any of you are.

> On 4 Dec 2016, at 18:51, dc0 <dc0 AT riseup.net> wrote:
> 
> If anything, a BB-like forum such as phpBB or SMF is probably a more
> organised solution than Discourse.
> 
> On 04/12/16 18:15, Alex Nordlund wrote:
>> Has anyone suggested discourse yet? 
>> 
>> On 4 Dec 2016 6:19 p.m., "Jonah Aragon" <jonaharagon AT gmail.com
>> <mailto:jonaharagon AT gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>    While it's certainly not ideal, the mailing list's archive page has
>>    rudimentary functions for browsing
>>    (https://lists.opennicproject.org/sympa/arc/discuss/2016-12/
>>    <https://lists.opennicproject.org/sympa/arc/discuss/2016-12/>) and
>>    replying to posts from the website. That is, if you really desire a
>>    web interface for some reason.
>> 
>>    I don't think a forum is necessary and it would encourage apathy
>>    towards the project for the reasons a few people have already
>>    mentioned here and on IRC, the nature of mailing lists is a push
>>    notification style of message, while forum posts you have to seek
>>    out yourself. It would stop the frequent reminders to participate
>>    that some people need. For example: Yesterday. We had a surge in
>>    mailing list posts following the .o approval and some other various
>>    discussions about infrastructure and the future of .free, and that's
>>    only because every time someone initiated a conversation the mailing
>>    list actively pulled new opinions in.
>> 
>>    The mailing list currently suits our needs quite nicely and I see no
>>    reason to fix something that isn't broken.
>> 
>>    Jonah
>> 
>>    On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 6:12 AM Aaron J. Angel <aaron.angel AT gmail.com
>>    <mailto:aaron.angel AT gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>        The obvious solution is to integrate two. I imagine could easily
>>        add the ability to send/post to the archive. I too have no
>>        interest in going to a web-based forum to check and read posts.
>>        I'd probably drop out completely if that were the case.
>> 
>> 
>>        On Sun, Dec 4, 2016, 7:06 AM Philipp Schafft
>>        <lion AT lion.leolix.org <mailto:lion AT lion.leolix.org>> wrote:
>> 
>>            Good morning,
>> 
>>            by the way, I'm not a fan of the taste of TOFU.
>> 
>> 
>>            On Sun, 2016-12-04 at 02:20 -0800, vv AT cgs.pw
>>            <mailto:vv AT cgs.pw> wrote:
>>> Well I don't think we'll lose anybody. :)
>>> Those of us who don't prefer mailing lists
>>> are currently using the mailing list with
>>> only a modicum of griping. :)
>> 
>> 
>>> I doubt there
>>> is anybody here who will not use a forum on
>>> principle, or because of technical or
>>> accessibility issues.
>> 
>>            Considering myself, yes, we would.
>> 
>> 
>>> That said, when it comes to talking about
>>> the number of people, I'd say that mailing
>>> lists don't really scale very well. It's fine
>>> with a few people and a few posts a day. But
>>> when it comes to larger numbers then a forum
>>> can handle any amount with ease. The ML had
>>> over 80 messages today, I think.
>> 
>>            Sure. Why don't you filter out the mails you don't like? My
>>            MUA offers
>>            that I flag a thread and then I can follow that and ignore other
>>            threads.
>> 
>> 
>>> Also, I would point out that forums do not
>>> need to have a huge amount of graphics and
>>> stuff that distracts. In fact they can be
>>> very business like. Here is one that I set
>>> up some years ago, but abandoned. One good
>>> feature is that it has sections that are
>>> not visible unless you are logged in. And
>>> there is also a section that only certain
>>> listed members can see, which can be of use
>>> for administrative use.
>>>   http://ykix.org
>>> I show that only as an example of readability
>>> and proof of concept that light grey text is
>>> not a given and there is actually no technical
>>> need to make us older folks feel unwelcome.
>>> The CSS on forums is easy to change to anything
>>> you want.
>> 
>> 
>>> Another thing about forums is the personal
>>> message function. You can do conversations
>>> in the background as PM without others reading
>>> them. This is not just a privacy thing, but
>>> helps keep the general communication clean when
>>> what you want to say is either off topic or
>>> personal comment.
>> 
>>            I perfectly can do that with the same MUA as I do for the
>>            list. In fact
>>            I have two buttons, one to answer to the list and one for a
>>            personal
>>            reply that is not going to the list.
>> 
>>            And that perfectly works without breaking threading ;)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Note too, that on a forum, other people don't
>>> see your email address. This is particularly
>>> important in a public setting where people will
>>> be finding us through search engines. So even
>>> though the public can read the messages and
>>> learn from them, they cannot spam you. This
>>> makes a forum a little like the best of both
>>> IRC and ML.
>> 
>> 
>>> As it is now there is a curious aspect to the
>>> way we are communicating. We are hiding from
>>> the public. Yes, with some work, our conversations
>>> can be found, but they are not going to come up
>>> in Duckduckgo or Google when someone is searching
>>> for OpenNIC information. A forum becomes a public
>>> record and shows transparency.
>> 
>>            Or a list archive.
>> 
>> 
>>            This is my most important point:
>>            Forums are always PULL based. So you need to invest time to
>>            actually
>>            find out there is nothing new that is relevant to you.
>>            MLs are PUSH. I'm informed when there is a new message.
>>            (Please do not
>>            answer with 'but you can enable e-mail notifications!', yes.
>>            I could do.
>>            r I could also just get the message by email and not being
>>            spammed with
>>            mails that have no value on their own.)
>> 
>>            My experience is that those few people who really run the
>>            infrastructure
>>            are short on time. Exactly because they run it all. And
>>            often not for
>>            just one project. You may gain Tom and Jack from the street.
>>            But you
>>            will likely loose those who really run the infrastructure.
>>            The number of
>>            users increasing doesn't mean the user actually bringing a
>>            project
>>            increase as well.
>> 
>>            That being my personal opinion based on many years of work
>>            in similar
>>            projects. Also I'm not going to push this too much. OpenNIC
>>            inner
>>            politics aren't my business. But I think that moving off the
>>            operative
>>            aspects into a forum could harm the peering as information
>>            would stop
>>            flowing.
>> 
>>            If you want a forum just for the Tom and Jack, little
>>            chatting, doing
>>            some end user support or whatever that is not really about
>>            operative
>>            aspects or voting I don't care at all.
>> 
>>            (my problem with voting is that with a forum I will no
>>            longer have a
>>            copy of it. With ML you can actually have a significant,
>>            digitally
>>            signed copy of the result. With a forum you need to trust
>>            that the
>>            operator will keep the information up and correct for as
>>            long as you may
>>            need it. Depending on stuff that may for legal reasons be
>>            many years.)
>> 
>>            Have a nice day,
>> 
>>            with best regards,
>> 
>> 
>>> Regards,
>>>        Ole Juul
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sun, 04 Dec 2016 09:11:03 +0000
>>> Philipp Schafft <lion AT lion.leolix.org
>>            <mailto:lion AT lion.leolix.org>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Good morning,
>>>> 
>>>> On Sun, 2016-12-04 at 05:38 +0000, dc0 wrote:
>>>>> This sounds like a great idea honestly and could make
>>>>> discussions related to OpenNIC more assessable to those
>>>>> who are allergic to mailing lists.
>>>> 
>>>> And loose all those allergic to forums ;)
>>>> 
>>>> with best regards,
>> 
>> 
>>            --
>>            Philipp.
>>             (Rah of PH2)
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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> 
> -- 
> Jason
>