Discuss mailing list

[Theo Bleier <me AT theos.space>]

To add to the above:

We already have a forum setup at talk.geek, so we don't need a new forum. The main problem right now is whether people want to use it or not.

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Jonah Aragon <jonaharagon AT gmail.com> wrote:

I sent him an email with unsubscribe instructions, hopefully that works :)

Not sure how you could possibly accidentally subscribe to a mailing list...

Jonah

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 1:00 PM dc0 <dc0 AT riseup.net> wrote:

Sorry, don't know who you are either. Perhaps un-subscribing to the
mailing list will resolve your problem?

On 04/12/16 18:54, joe williams wrote:
> PLEASE STOP MAILING ME
>
> I have asked many times.
>
> I don’t know who any of you are.
>
>> On 4 Dec 2016, at 18:51, dc0 <dc0 AT riseup.net> wrote:
>>
>> If anything, a BB-like forum such as phpBB or SMF is probably a more
>> organised solution than Discourse.
>>
>> On 04/12/16 18:15, Alex Nordlund wrote:
>>> Has anyone suggested discourse yet?
>>>
>>> On 4 Dec 2016 6:19 p.m., "Jonah Aragon" <jonaharagon AT gmail.com
>>> <mailto:jonaharagon AT gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>    While it's certainly not ideal, the mailing list's archive page has
>>>    rudimentary functions for browsing
>>>    (https://lists.opennicproject.org/sympa/arc/discuss/2016-12/
>>>    <https://lists.opennicproject.org/sympa/arc/discuss/2016-12/>) and
>>>    replying to posts from the website. That is, if you really desire a
>>>    web interface for some reason.
>>>
>>>    I don't think a forum is necessary and it would encourage apathy
>>>    towards the project for the reasons a few people have already
>>>    mentioned here and on IRC, the nature of mailing lists is a push
>>>    notification style of message, while forum posts you have to seek
>>>    out yourself. It would stop the frequent reminders to participate
>>>    that some people need. For example: Yesterday. We had a surge in
>>>    mailing list posts following the .o approval and some other various
>>>    discussions about infrastructure and the future of .free, and that's
>>>    only because every time someone initiated a conversation the mailing
>>>    list actively pulled new opinions in.
>>>
>>>    The mailing list currently suits our needs quite nicely and I see no
>>>    reason to fix something that isn't broken.
>>>
>>>    Jonah
>>>
>>>    On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 6:12 AM Aaron J. Angel <aaron.angel AT gmail.com
>>>    <mailto:aaron.angel AT gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>        The obvious solution is to integrate two. I imagine could easily
>>>        add the ability to send/post to the archive. I too have no
>>>        interest in going to a web-based forum to check and read posts.
>>>        I'd probably drop out completely if that were the case.
>>>
>>>
>>>        On Sun, Dec 4, 2016, 7:06 AM Philipp Schafft
>>>        <lion AT lion.leolix.org <mailto:lion AT lion.leolix.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>            Good morning,
>>>
>>>            by the way, I'm not a fan of the taste of TOFU.
>>>
>>>
>>>            On Sun, 2016-12-04 at 02:20 -0800, vv AT cgs.pw
>>>            <mailto:vv AT cgs.pw> wrote:
>>>> Well I don't think we'll lose anybody. :)
>>>> Those of us who don't prefer mailing lists
>>>> are currently using the mailing list with
>>>> only a modicum of griping. :)
>>>
>>>
>>>> I doubt there
>>>> is anybody here who will not use a forum on
>>>> principle, or because of technical or
>>>> accessibility issues.
>>>
>>>            Considering myself, yes, we would.
>>>
>>>
>>>> That said, when it comes to talking about
>>>> the number of people, I'd say that mailing
>>>> lists don't really scale very well. It's fine
>>>> with a few people and a few posts a day. But
>>>> when it comes to larger numbers then a forum
>>>> can handle any amount with ease. The ML had
>>>> over 80 messages today, I think.
>>>
>>>            Sure. Why don't you filter out the mails you don't like? My
>>>            MUA offers
>>>            that I flag a thread and then I can follow that and ignore other
>>>            threads.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Also, I would point out that forums do not
>>>> need to have a huge amount of graphics and
>>>> stuff that distracts. In fact they can be
>>>> very business like. Here is one that I set
>>>> up some years ago, but abandoned. One good
>>>> feature is that it has sections that are
>>>> not visible unless you are logged in. And
>>>> there is also a section that only certain
>>>> listed members can see, which can be of use
>>>> for administrative use.
>>>>   http://ykix.org
>>>> I show that only as an example of readability
>>>> and proof of concept that light grey text is
>>>> not a given and there is actually no technical
>>>> need to make us older folks feel unwelcome.
>>>> The CSS on forums is easy to change to anything
>>>> you want.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Another thing about forums is the personal
>>>> message function. You can do conversations
>>>> in the background as PM without others reading
>>>> them. This is not just a privacy thing, but
>>>> helps keep the general communication clean when
>>>> what you want to say is either off topic or
>>>> personal comment.
>>>
>>>            I perfectly can do that with the same MUA as I do for the
>>>            list. In fact
>>>            I have two buttons, one to answer to the list and one for a
>>>            personal
>>>            reply that is not going to the list.
>>>
>>>            And that perfectly works without breaking threading ;)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Note too, that on a forum, other people don't
>>>> see your email address. This is particularly
>>>> important in a public setting where people will
>>>> be finding us through search engines. So even
>>>> though the public can read the messages and
>>>> learn from them, they cannot spam you. This
>>>> makes a forum a little like the best of both
>>>> IRC and ML.
>>>
>>>
>>>> As it is now there is a curious aspect to the
>>>> way we are communicating. We are hiding from
>>>> the public. Yes, with some work, our conversations
>>>> can be found, but they are not going to come up
>>>> in Duckduckgo or Google when someone is searching
>>>> for OpenNIC information. A forum becomes a public
>>>> record and shows transparency.
>>>
>>>            Or a list archive.
>>>
>>>
>>>            This is my most important point:
>>>            Forums are always PULL based. So you need to invest time to
>>>            actually
>>>            find out there is nothing new that is relevant to you.
>>>            MLs are PUSH. I'm informed when there is a new message.
>>>            (Please do not
>>>            answer with 'but you can enable e-mail notifications!', yes.
>>>            I could do.
>>>            r I could also just get the message by email and not being
>>>            spammed with
>>>            mails that have no value on their own.)
>>>
>>>            My experience is that those few people who really run the
>>>            infrastructure
>>>            are short on time. Exactly because they run it all. And
>>>            often not for
>>>            just one project. You may gain Tom and Jack from the street.
>>>            But you
>>>            will likely loose those who really run the infrastructure.
>>>            The number of
>>>            users increasing doesn't mean the user actually bringing a
>>>            project
>>>            increase as well.
>>>
>>>            That being my personal opinion based on many years of work
>>>            in similar
>>>            projects. Also I'm not going to push this too much. OpenNIC
>>>            inner
>>>            politics aren't my business. But I think that moving off the
>>>            operative
>>>            aspects into a forum could harm the peering as information
>>>            would stop
>>>            flowing.
>>>
>>>            If you want a forum just for the Tom and Jack, little
>>>            chatting, doing
>>>            some end user support or whatever that is not really about
>>>            operative
>>>            aspects or voting I don't care at all.
>>>
>>>            (my problem with voting is that with a forum I will no
>>>            longer have a
>>>            copy of it. With ML you can actually have a significant,
>>>            digitally
>>>            signed copy of the result. With a forum you need to trust
>>>            that the
>>>            operator will keep the information up and correct for as
>>>            long as you may
>>>            need it. Depending on stuff that may for legal reasons be
>>>            many years.)
>>>
>>>            Have a nice day,
>>>
>>>            with best regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>        Ole Juul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 04 Dec 2016 09:11:03 +0000
>>>> Philipp Schafft <lion AT lion.leolix.org
>>>            <mailto:lion AT lion.leolix.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Good morning,
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 2016-12-04 at 05:38 +0000, dc0 wrote:
>>>>>> This sounds like a great idea honestly and could make
>>>>>> discussions related to OpenNIC more assessable to those
>>>>>> who are allergic to mailing lists.
>>>>>
>>>>> And loose all those allergic to forums ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> with best regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>            --
>>>            Philipp.
>>>             (Rah of PH2)
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> --
>> Jason
>>
>
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--
Jason

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