Discuss mailing list

[Brian Koontz <brian AT opennicproject.org>]

Are you talking about opennicproject.org?  I can add it if you tell me
what you want.

  --Brian

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 2:44 PM, dc0 <dc0 AT riseup.net> wrote:
> That's great but shouldn't it be advertised on the OpenNIC website so
> more people know about it? The forum should probably have another domain
> that is assessable to those that aren't using OpenNIC dns.
>
> On 04/12/16 19:27, Theo Bleier wrote:
>> To add to the above:
>>
>> We already have a forum setup at talk.geek, so we don't need a new
>> forum. The main problem right now is whether people want to use it or not.
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Jonah Aragon <jonaharagon AT gmail.com
>> <mailto:jonaharagon AT gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     I sent him an email with unsubscribe instructions, hopefully that
>>     works :)
>>
>>     Not sure how you could possibly accidentally subscribe to a mailing
>>     list...
>>
>>     Jonah
>>
>>     On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 1:00 PM dc0 <dc0 AT riseup.net
>>     <mailto:dc0 AT riseup.net>> wrote:
>>
>>         Sorry, don't know who you are either. Perhaps un-subscribing to the
>>         mailing list will resolve your problem?
>>
>>         On 04/12/16 18:54, joe williams wrote:
>>         > PLEASE STOP MAILING ME
>>         >
>>         > I have asked many times.
>>         >
>>         > I don’t know who any of you are.
>>         >
>>         >> On 4 Dec 2016, at 18:51, dc0 <dc0 AT riseup.net
>>         <mailto:dc0 AT riseup.net>> wrote:
>>         >>
>>         >> If anything, a BB-like forum such as phpBB or SMF is probably
>>         a more
>>         >> organised solution than Discourse.
>>         >>
>>         >> On 04/12/16 18:15, Alex Nordlund wrote:
>>         >>> Has anyone suggested discourse yet?
>>         >>>
>>         >>> On 4 Dec 2016 6:19 p.m., "Jonah Aragon"
>>         <jonaharagon AT gmail.com <mailto:jonaharagon AT gmail.com>
>>         >>> <mailto:jonaharagon AT gmail.com
>>         <mailto:jonaharagon AT gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>         >>>
>>         >>>    While it's certainly not ideal, the mailing list's
>>         archive page has
>>         >>>    rudimentary functions for browsing
>>         >>>
>>         (https://lists.opennicproject.org/sympa/arc/discuss/2016-12/
>>         <https://lists.opennicproject.org/sympa/arc/discuss/2016-12/>
>>         >>>
>>         <https://lists.opennicproject.org/sympa/arc/discuss/2016-12/
>>         <https://lists.opennicproject.org/sympa/arc/discuss/2016-12/>>) and
>>         >>>    replying to posts from the website. That is, if you
>>         really desire a
>>         >>>    web interface for some reason.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>    I don't think a forum is necessary and it would encourage
>>         apathy
>>         >>>    towards the project for the reasons a few people have 
>> already
>>         >>>    mentioned here and on IRC, the nature of mailing lists is
>>         a push
>>         >>>    notification style of message, while forum posts you have
>>         to seek
>>         >>>    out yourself. It would stop the frequent reminders to
>>         participate
>>         >>>    that some people need. For example: Yesterday. We had a
>>         surge in
>>         >>>    mailing list posts following the .o approval and some
>>         other various
>>         >>>    discussions about infrastructure and the future of .free,
>>         and that's
>>         >>>    only because every time someone initiated a conversation
>>         the mailing
>>         >>>    list actively pulled new opinions in.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>    The mailing list currently suits our needs quite nicely
>>         and I see no
>>         >>>    reason to fix something that isn't broken.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>    Jonah
>>         >>>
>>         >>>    On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 6:12 AM Aaron J. Angel
>>         <aaron.angel AT gmail.com <mailto:aaron.angel AT gmail.com>
>>         >>>    <mailto:aaron.angel AT gmail.com
>>         <mailto:aaron.angel AT gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>         >>>
>>         >>>        The obvious solution is to integrate two. I imagine
>>         could easily
>>         >>>        add the ability to send/post to the archive. I too
>>         have no
>>         >>>        interest in going to a web-based forum to check and
>>         read posts.
>>         >>>        I'd probably drop out completely if that were the case.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>        On Sun, Dec 4, 2016, 7:06 AM Philipp Schafft
>>         >>>        <lion AT lion.leolix.org <mailto:lion AT lion.leolix.org>
>>         <mailto:lion AT lion.leolix.org <mailto:lion AT lion.leolix.org>>> wrote:
>>         >>>
>>         >>>            Good morning,
>>         >>>
>>         >>>            by the way, I'm not a fan of the taste of TOFU.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>            On Sun, 2016-12-04 at 02:20 -0800, vv AT cgs.pw
>>         <mailto:vv AT cgs.pw>
>>         >>>            <mailto:vv AT cgs.pw <mailto:vv AT cgs.pw>> wrote:
>>         >>>> Well I don't think we'll lose anybody. :)
>>         >>>> Those of us who don't prefer mailing lists
>>         >>>> are currently using the mailing list with
>>         >>>> only a modicum of griping. :)
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>> I doubt there
>>         >>>> is anybody here who will not use a forum on
>>         >>>> principle, or because of technical or
>>         >>>> accessibility issues.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>            Considering myself, yes, we would.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>> That said, when it comes to talking about
>>         >>>> the number of people, I'd say that mailing
>>         >>>> lists don't really scale very well. It's fine
>>         >>>> with a few people and a few posts a day. But
>>         >>>> when it comes to larger numbers then a forum
>>         >>>> can handle any amount with ease. The ML had
>>         >>>> over 80 messages today, I think.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>            Sure. Why don't you filter out the mails you
>>         don't like? My
>>         >>>            MUA offers
>>         >>>            that I flag a thread and then I can follow that
>>         and ignore other
>>         >>>            threads.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>> Also, I would point out that forums do not
>>         >>>> need to have a huge amount of graphics and
>>         >>>> stuff that distracts. In fact they can be
>>         >>>> very business like. Here is one that I set
>>         >>>> up some years ago, but abandoned. One good
>>         >>>> feature is that it has sections that are
>>         >>>> not visible unless you are logged in. And
>>         >>>> there is also a section that only certain
>>         >>>> listed members can see, which can be of use
>>         >>>> for administrative use.
>>         >>>>   http://ykix.org
>>         >>>> I show that only as an example of readability
>>         >>>> and proof of concept that light grey text is
>>         >>>> not a given and there is actually no technical
>>         >>>> need to make us older folks feel unwelcome.
>>         >>>> The CSS on forums is easy to change to anything
>>         >>>> you want.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>> Another thing about forums is the personal
>>         >>>> message function. You can do conversations
>>         >>>> in the background as PM without others reading
>>         >>>> them. This is not just a privacy thing, but
>>         >>>> helps keep the general communication clean when
>>         >>>> what you want to say is either off topic or
>>         >>>> personal comment.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>            I perfectly can do that with the same MUA as I do
>>         for the
>>         >>>            list. In fact
>>         >>>            I have two buttons, one to answer to the list and
>>         one for a
>>         >>>            personal
>>         >>>            reply that is not going to the list.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>            And that perfectly works without breaking
>>         threading ;)
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>> Note too, that on a forum, other people don't
>>         >>>> see your email address. This is particularly
>>         >>>> important in a public setting where people will
>>         >>>> be finding us through search engines. So even
>>         >>>> though the public can read the messages and
>>         >>>> learn from them, they cannot spam you. This
>>         >>>> makes a forum a little like the best of both
>>         >>>> IRC and ML.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>> As it is now there is a curious aspect to the
>>         >>>> way we are communicating. We are hiding from
>>         >>>> the public. Yes, with some work, our conversations
>>         >>>> can be found, but they are not going to come up
>>         >>>> in Duckduckgo or Google when someone is searching
>>         >>>> for OpenNIC information. A forum becomes a public
>>         >>>> record and shows transparency.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>            Or a list archive.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>            This is my most important point:
>>         >>>            Forums are always PULL based. So you need to
>>         invest time to
>>         >>>            actually
>>         >>>            find out there is nothing new that is relevant to
>>         you.
>>         >>>            MLs are PUSH. I'm informed when there is a new
>>         message.
>>         >>>            (Please do not
>>         >>>            answer with 'but you can enable e-mail
>>         notifications!', yes.
>>         >>>            I could do.
>>         >>>            r I could also just get the message by email and
>>         not being
>>         >>>            spammed with
>>         >>>            mails that have no value on their own.)
>>         >>>
>>         >>>            My experience is that those few people who really
>>         run the
>>         >>>            infrastructure
>>         >>>            are short on time. Exactly because they run it
>>         all. And
>>         >>>            often not for
>>         >>>            just one project. You may gain Tom and Jack from
>>         the street.
>>         >>>            But you
>>         >>>            will likely loose those who really run the
>>         infrastructure.
>>         >>>            The number of
>>         >>>            users increasing doesn't mean the user actually
>>         bringing a
>>         >>>            project
>>         >>>            increase as well.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>            That being my personal opinion based on many
>>         years of work
>>         >>>            in similar
>>         >>>            projects. Also I'm not going to push this too
>>         much. OpenNIC
>>         >>>            inner
>>         >>>            politics aren't my business. But I think that
>>         moving off the
>>         >>>            operative
>>         >>>            aspects into a forum could harm the peering as
>>         information
>>         >>>            would stop
>>         >>>            flowing.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>            If you want a forum just for the Tom and Jack, 
>> little
>>         >>>            chatting, doing
>>         >>>            some end user support or whatever that is not
>>         really about
>>         >>>            operative
>>         >>>            aspects or voting I don't care at all.
>>         >>>
>>         >>>            (my problem with voting is that with a forum I
>>         will no
>>         >>>            longer have a
>>         >>>            copy of it. With ML you can actually have a
>>         significant,
>>         >>>            digitally
>>         >>>            signed copy of the result. With a forum you need
>>         to trust
>>         >>>            that the
>>         >>>            operator will keep the information up and correct
>>         for as
>>         >>>            long as you may
>>         >>>            need it. Depending on stuff that may for legal
>>         reasons be
>>         >>>            many years.)
>>         >>>
>>         >>>            Have a nice day,
>>         >>>
>>         >>>            with best regards,
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>> Regards,
>>         >>>>        Ole Juul
>>         >>>>
>>         >>>>
>>         >>>> On Sun, 04 Dec 2016 09:11:03 +0000
>>         >>>> Philipp Schafft <lion AT lion.leolix.org
>>         <mailto:lion AT lion.leolix.org>
>>         >>>            <mailto:lion AT lion.leolix.org
>>         <mailto:lion AT lion.leolix.org>>> wrote:
>>         >>>>
>>         >>>>> Good morning,
>>         >>>>>
>>         >>>>> On Sun, 2016-12-04 at 05:38 +0000, dc0 wrote:
>>         >>>>>> This sounds like a great idea honestly and could make
>>         >>>>>> discussions related to OpenNIC more assessable to those
>>         >>>>>> who are allergic to mailing lists.
>>         >>>>>
>>         >>>>> And loose all those allergic to forums ;)
>>         >>>>>
>>         >>>>> with best regards,
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>            --
>>         >>>            Philipp.
>>         >>>             (Rah of PH2)
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>            --------
>>         >>>            You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list.
>>         >>>            You may unsubscribe by emailing
>>         >>>            discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennicproject.org
>>         <mailto:discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennicproject.org>
>>         >>>
>>         <mailto:discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennicproject.org
>>         <mailto:discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennicproject.org>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>        --------
>>         >>>        You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list.
>>         >>>        You may unsubscribe by emailing
>>         >>>        discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennicproject.org
>>         <mailto:discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennicproject.org>
>>         >>>        <mailto:discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennicproject.org
>>         <mailto:discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennicproject.org>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>    --------
>>         >>>    You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list.
>>         >>>    You may unsubscribe by emailing
>>         >>>    discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennicproject.org
>>         <mailto:discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennicproject.org>
>>         >>>    <mailto:discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennicproject.org
>>         <mailto:discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennicproject.org>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>>
>>         >>> --------
>>         >>> You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list.
>>         >>> You may unsubscribe by emailing
>>         discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennicproject.org
>>         <mailto:discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennicproject.org>
>>         >>>
>>         >>
>>         >> --
>>         >> Jason
>>         >>
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > --------
>>         > You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list.
>>         > You may unsubscribe by emailing
>>         discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennicproject.org
>>         <mailto:discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennicproject.org>
>>         >
>>
>>         --
>>         Jason
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     --------
>>     You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list.
>>     You may unsubscribe by emailing
>>     discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennicproject.org
>>     <mailto:discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennicproject.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --------
>> You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list.
>> You may unsubscribe by emailing 
>> discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennicproject.org
>>
>
> --
> Jason
>