Discuss mailing list

[Christopher <weblionx AT gmail.com>]

I'd say go with either entirely non-commercial, or allow it. Even if
you say "only commercial activity allowed is for bespoke goods" at
what point does it go from being hobby to mass manufacturer? A single
person could, for example, buy an injection molder and pick-and-place
machine and start cranking out rather large quantities of an
electronic item. Maybe if you really want to limit it, you could come
up with an allowed-list and have membership votes regarding adding
items to the list, but that makes a mess of things.

Regarding the idea in general, I think it's a neat idea, but at the
same time it's similar to .geek. Yeah it's got a bit of a twist, but
".cyb" isn't exactly a catchy name, and misses the "punk" part
completely. Any reason for not proposing ".cyberpunk"? Or maybe
something else but along the same lines.

- wlx

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 5:16 PM,  <vv AT cgs.pw> wrote:
> I agree, "commercial" is not easy to define in
> this situation. Perhaps that is because it is really
> something else that is being thought about. After
> all if something is not clear, then it can only be
> because we don't know what we're talking about. :)
>
> It might be worthwhile to look at what it _really_
> is that the charter is intended to exclude.
>
> ~ Ole
>
>
> On Wed, 12 Jul 2017 16:39:41 -0400 (EDT)
> "Daniel Quintiliani" <danq AT runbox.com> wrote:
>
>> I think having debates over what counts as commercial use
>> and what doesn't creates an unnecessary layer of
>> complexity. If licensed attorneys at Creative Commons
>> still can't come up with a straight answer for
>> "non-commercial" (and there's a lawsuit going on right
>> now) what makes you think we can?
>>
>> --
>>
>> -Dan Q
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 12 Jul 2017 20:17:54 +0000, Al Beano
>> <albino AT autistici.org> wrote:
>>
>> > We believe placing restrictions on commercial use
>> > leaves domains open to those who would use them
>> > non-commercially and in doing so create a better
>> > cyberpunk 'atmosphere' surrounding the TLD. There are
>> > many spaces open for unlimited commercial use on the
>> > internet (and within OpenNIC) but a TLD designated as
>> > being cyberpunk in nature would not benefit from the
>> > activity they attract.
>> >
>> > If you're referring to the fact that there is very
>> > little current commercial activity on OpenNIC, that
>> > could change in the future and we think it's worth
>> > setting out these policies now.
>> >
>> > That said, creating a distinction between what
>> > commercial use is allowed/disallowed is beginning to
>> > seem very difficult, and the ambiguity involved may
>> > deter people from using the TLD. We're still open to
>> > the idea of dropping the whole thing and allowing
>> > commercial use, and would value further feedback.
>> >
>> > On 2017-07-12 20:03, Daniel Quintiliani wrote:
>> > > What's the point of allowing or disallowing
>> > > commercial use?
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > >
>> > > -Dan Q
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, 12 Jul 2017 19:38:20 +0000, Al Beano
>> > > <albino AT autistici.org> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> That's a good point. I agree there comes a point
>> > >> where commercial use needs to be handled on a
>> > >> case-by-case basis, but I think the charter should
>> > >> also include examples to give an idea of what
>> > >> would/would not be acceptable.
>> > >>
>> > >> I stand by using amateur radio as an example, as
>> > >> it's something which is
>> > >> of interest to most real life 'cyberpunks', but not
>> > >> to the general public. There will inevitably be some
>> > >> overlap betweeen .cyb and .geek because most
>> > >> cyberpunks/cyberpunk enthusiasts are also geeks, but
>> > >> the ethos and community surrounding the two TLDs
>> > >> will be very different.
>> > >>
>> > >> The example of anime DVDs can be removed altogether.
>> > >>
>> > >> albino
>> > >>
>> > >> On 2017-07-12 19:25, Famicoman wrote:
>> > >> > I understand where you are coming from regarding
>> > >> > commercial use of sites, but the argument could be
>> > >> > made that something like anime DVD sales could be
>> > >> > just as mainstream as pre-built computers. A
>> > >> > computer could be just as cyberpunk as an Akira
>> > >> > DVD, but on the other hand a random person off the
>> > >> > street might really like Spirited Away or
>> > >> > something even if they don't know much about the
>> > >> > genre.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Maybe say commercial sites could be allowed for
>> > >> > cyberpunk goods, under the discretion of .cyb
>> > >> > administrators on a case-by-case basis as needed?
>> > >> > Just blanketing anime or amateur radio could be
>> > >> > general enough for a .geek site.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On Jul 12, 2017 2:58 PM, "Al Beano"
>> > >> > <albino AT autistici.org> wrote:
>> > >> >> Hello,
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> We would like to propose a new TLD (.cyb) for
>> > >> >> OpenNIC:
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> .cyb TLD
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> ===========
>> > >> >> + CHARTER +
>> > >> >> ===========
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Description
>> > >> >> - - - - - -
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> .cyb is a space for all things cyberpunk,
>> > >> >> including the 'underground' use of technology in
>> > >> >> the real world. This includes cyberpunk fiction,
>> > >> >> computers, and any kind of homebrew/hobbyist
>> > >> >> technology.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> .cyb is no ordinary TLD. We strive to bring TLDs
>> > >> >> to a community level by automating the
>> > >> >> registration process, and providing services such
>> > >> >> as free DNS/mail/XMPP/web hosting to all holders
>> > >> >> of .cyb domains.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> We are also going to implement an opt-in mailing
>> > >> >> list which would permit notifications of domain
>> > >> >> registrations to be sent out to all those
>> > >> >> interested. This will, of course, be optional on
>> > >> >> both sides (opt-in to notify, opt-in to receive).
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Furthermore, we will provide a certificate
>> > >> >> authority and issue each domain owner with a
>> > >> >> corresponding certificate. Alternative names and
>> > >> >> wildcards can also be requested.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Registration
>> > >> >> - - - - - -
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Registration of .cyb domains is free of charge.
>> > >> >> Any person can register as many .cyb domains as
>> > >> >> they wish, providing they have a legitimate use
>> > >> >> for them (as described within this charter).
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> In general, usage should be non-commercial
>> > >> >> (although this requirement is mostly subjective
>> > >> >> and might require a vote from the membership). As
>> > >> >> a guide, .cyb domains used for commercial
>> > >> >> purposes should not aim to appeal to the general
>> > >> >> public. For example, a website selling amateur
>> > >> >> radio equipment or anime DVDs would be
>> > >> >> acceptable, but one selling pre-built computers
>> > >> >> would not.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Registrations are offered on a first-come
>> > >> >> first-served basis, and last one year before they
>> > >> >> must be renewed.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> We aim to provide a web interface for managing
>> > >> >> and registering domains, however, early users of
>> > >> >> the TLD may register domains by email.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Policies
>> > >> >> - - - -
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> The following activities are prohibited, and will
>> > >> >> result in revocation of the offending domain(s):
>> > >> >> * Domain squatting
>> > >> >> * Distribution of child pornography
>> > >> >> * Distribution of spam/malware
>> > >> >> * Unauthorised access of other computer systems
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Domains will be revoked if the .cyb
>> > >> >> administration or membership deems them to be in
>> > >> >> violation of this policy. Please report any
>> > >> >> violating domains to the abuse email address
>> > >> >> (listed in the 'Contacts') section of this
>> > >> >> charter.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Voting
>> > >> >> - - -
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Members (anyone who holds a .cyb domain and is a
>> > >> >> member of OpenNIC) are eligible to call for, and
>> > >> >> vote on, motions relating to the administration
>> > >> >> of the domain. Motions will be passed by a
>> > >> >> majority of votes.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Contacts
>> > >> >> - - - -
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> * DNS master - hostmaster AT opennic.cyb
>> > >> >> * Abuse -  abuse AT opennic.cyb
>> > >> >> * Webmaster - webmaster AT opennic.cyb
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> * Pre-release contacts - albino AT autistici.org,
>> > >> >> sy AT zm.is
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> ========================
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Thanks for reading this proposal, and we welcome
>> > >> >> any feedback and suggestions you might have.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Al Beano <albino AT autistici.org>
>> > >> >> sy <sy AT zm.is>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> --------
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