Discuss mailing list

['smee <overthefalls AT opengroupware.ch>]

The problem is that the people who would be in a position to censor it
will do so for their own purposes and only maybe coincidentally for any
moral purpose. Google is the perfect example of this. They're involved
in software and protocol development in so many projects and so far in
bed with government (another non-benevolent, usually regulatorily
captured, usually bad actor) that who's to trust them to do the job of
censoring the internet. The internet will turn into tv where it talks
to us and we listen and obey instead of people freely exchanging ideas.

You say the uncensored internet will inevitably be or become a
cesspool, I posit that it will only more accurately mirror the real
world, good and bad. And I don't think you'll be able to clean out all
the bad from the internet just like you will never clear out all the
bad from all us humans.
What I think scares the powers that be the most, truth will be allowed
to be spoken and will be allowed to perpetuate, and no one will be
allowed to lead every conversation. That's what we risk by allowing
censorship imo. If we allow censorship, the end-game I think is that
the talking heads will get to keep talking and they'll gain their
(mostly quiet) audience back.

On Fri, 2019-06-28 at 21:21 -0400, Rouben wrote:
> I thought this was about malware... maybe child porn too, although I
> don’t
> think Spamhaus has anything to do with blocking the latter.
> 
> AFAIK Spamhaus is a not for profit organization. So technically they
> are
> not an “evil” (i.e. profit making) corporation, and as was pointed
> out
> earlier, they aren’t forcing or interfering in anyone’s operations;
> it’s
> actually up to each operator/vendor to leverage their
> efforts/products
> (i.e. black/whitelists). In fact, I’d say, their aim and purpose are
> actually pretty close to OpenNIC, albeit they don’t operate (or
> strive
> towards) an absolute democracy like OpenNIC does.
> 
> Having said the above, I think it’s important to recognize
> practicality. If
> the Internet were 100% “unmanaged” and “uncensored” (i.e. a true
> “free for
> all” with zero restrictions) environment, it would be useless
> cesspool of
> spam, malware and other garbage... because there would be enough a-
> holes to
> abuse it for everything it’s got. This has been proven undeniably
> over the
> course of time. There are pretty obvious reasons why organizations
> like
> Spamhaus exist, and more importantly to this rant, why others
> *choose* to
> *voluntarily* use their tools of “censorship” (i.e. blacklists).
> 
> Does the idealist in me wish that the Internet could go back to the
> Arpanet
> model of absolute trust and openness where every DNS and SMTP server
> is
> wide open to “help out” the community like in the good old days? Yes.
> Is it
> ever going to happen in the foreseeable future? No way!
> 
> Just my $0.02...
> 
> Rouben
> 
> On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 18:10 Daniel Quintiliani <danq AT runbox.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > Umm...are you talking adult content on OpenNIC TLDs, or are servers
> > actually going to start filtering mainstream adult Internet sites
> > via DNS?
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > -Dan Q
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 16:01:02 -0600, Jeff Taylor <shdwdrgn@sourpuss.
> > net>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > For example, interest has been
> > > expressed over the years to have an adult content listing, and
> > > this is
> > > something that could be produced within the blacklist API.
> > > 
> > 
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