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[kevin <krattai AT gmail.com>]

Yup.   which is why it is so important to step back and reflect.
 Although I admit that sometimes I don't "get" that someone is angry
with me about something, I also know that I should be able to assume,
at least in part, that the people engaged in a conversation are trying
to communicate good will for the possibility of a positive outcome.

And then there's the usual "flame repellent suit" one needs to put on,
whether in the context of the internet, or in the real world...  lol

And just for a bit of clarity, my own responding to this specific
thread regarding one specific individual is concerned, I want to be
clear that I am not piling onto one specific person and I apologize if
that is how it seems to anyone.  There are others who are very
insistent in some formalization and creation of an ICANN competitor and
for those who wish that, I say please create a group, independent of
the core, and carry on.  Those who are interested will follow, those
who are not will continue to work on their own efforts to making the
openNIC framework worthy of being used by the public at large.

One should never assume that cats can be herded.

B)

Kevin

On Thu, 2018-08-16 at 14:04 +0100, Sebastian Makowiecki wrote:
> While the ciphered on-screen messages are in theory the same on every
> screen, filtered through each individual's perception mechanisms are
> a subject of subjective interpretation.
> 
> ~ 
> Sebastian Makowiecki
> 
> On 16 August 2018 13:48:57 GMT+01:00, kevin <krattai AT gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > 
> > It doesn't matter how many times I translate the original German
> > post
> > and how many times I read it, that no where do I see there being
> > any
> > threats of violence.  Maybe my google translate translates
> > different...
> > 
> > I also find it interesting that there appear to be many members
> > from
> > different (states? and) countries that understand what a spoiled
> > ballot
> > is.  That's not to say that some won't understand, but it seems to
> > be
> > generally understood within global voting systems.
> > 
> > Which leads me back to when I stated that we need to first consider
> > that there has not been established a legal country or state of
> > origin
> > for openNIC, if there is any desire to legally uphold any
> > governance in
> > respect to the real world.  That this "democracy" that we are
> > chasing
> > is more an exercise of academics than real world functionality.  We
> > are
> > wanting functional democracy when even in the real world, it
> > doesn't
> > properly exist, regardless of anyone's assertion to the contrary.
> > 
> > I will take this back yet further to where I suggested that, for
> > those
> > who are interested in directly competing with ICANN, please feel
> > free
> > to form a "committee" and take the openNIC framework, create the
> > necessary governance decrees, and move forward as an independent
> > group
> > seeking that goal.  Still part of the openNIC community and using
> > the
> > openNIC core and framework, but with very specific goals, and not
> > directly involving the other members who are not interested in that
> > goal, leaving the community at large to continue working on its own
> > goals. ie. Like any commercial company taking open source software
> > /
> > technology and building a business around it.  I could possibly
> > support
> > that group, that would stand alone as it's own legal entity, I
> > think.
> >  For the most part in principle, anyhow.  Until such time that it
> > simply became another ICANN.
> > 
> > Kevin
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, 2018-08-16 at 11:53 +0000, Philipp Schafft wrote:
> > > 
> > > Good afternoon,
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Thu, 2018-08-16 at 07:01 -0400, Daniel Quintiliani wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > It's not my translation, it's Google's translation. Blame their
> > > > faulty
> > > > algorithms for being "unkind" and "flooding".
> > > Their algorithms have not posted to my thread.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I simply copied and pasted it because nobody was understanding
> > > > me
> > > > when
> > > > I thought it was violent.
> > > Why did you think so in the first place? There was no reason to
> > > do
> > > so.
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Is there any way you can leave me alone and not have a problem
> > > > with
> > > > me? What do I have to do so you can leave me alone? 
> > > I have no personal problem with you at all. I'm also not
> > > targeting
> > > your
> > > person.
> > > 
> > > I'm here to hold the banner of democracy up. With the other
> > > banners
> > > OpenNIC considers important.
> > > 
> > > And as clearly visible in the archives, I have done so in the
> > > past
> > > when
> > > other persons worked on what I consider fatal erosion on
> > > OpenNIC's
> > > foundation.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I'm getting really tired of this. I've missed at least 2 family
> > > > get-togethers over the past month because I'm too scared of
> > > > what
> > > > people here will do to me if I'm not right on time with the
> > > > votes.
> > > > I
> > > > am having a hard time sleeping too because of OpenNIC, and
> > > > health
> > > > issues which randomly appeared this week aren't any help.
> > > I'm sorry to hear about this. And I wish you the best with your
> > > health
> > > problems.
> > > 
> > > All I can suggest here is that you slow down. This is one of the
> > > things
> > > I spoke in my text about. That rushing things is often a bad
> > > idea.
> > > This
> > > has nothing to do with you, or even OpenNIC. Just that rushing
> > > things
> > > isn't how the world works.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > No matter what I try to do to either (1) please everyone or (2)
> > > > try
> > > > and put everything behind us and peace, someone finds some
> > > > fault
> > > > with
> > > > it and uses it to attack me.
> > > The point here is that it doesn't feel that way. I noticed that
> > > your
> > > behavior changed. I also think that there there are aspects
> > > pointing
> > > to
> > > the right direction.
> > > 
> > > Yet I still see there many problems. All I can suggest you to
> > > allow
> > > yourself a cool down. Why not e.g. ask someone else to count the
> > > votes?
> > > This way it's not your problem anymore. If you don't count them
> > > at
> > > all,
> > > you can't be blamed for doing wrong.
> > > 
> > > And in a democratic voting there is only one correct result from
> > > the
> > > counting. Therefore it's of no relevance who counts.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I am scared. I don't know if there will be a proposal to target
> > > > me
> > > > with something.
> > > As hard as this one might sound, but: You did that against
> > > others.
> > > And
> > > things might or might come back to oneself.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I cannot honestly believe you legitimately compare about
> > > > democracy.
> > > > You are a troll plain and simple.
> > > You are attacking me personally again.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > You speak and post threads in foreign languages just to
> > > > aggravate
> > > > me.
> > > Which is a offending allegation. How did you know? Over here
> > > people
> > > nee
> > > to prove such claims. If they can't... according to German law
> > > there
> > > can
> > > be up to five years of jail. This is not some minor thing. If you
> > > raise
> > > your voice like this, prove it!
> > > 
> > > What I did was commenting on the events of the day. In fact I
> > > used a
> > > style that is commonly used to ask people to reflect. I actually
> > > hoped
> > > for no reply to my thread.
> > > 
> > > Also I did post in German (I don't see how the Internet has
> > > "foreign"
> > > languages, this doesn't make sense to me) with your own approval.
> > > You
> > > have acknowledged the use of non-English languages in discussions
> > > yourself.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > You nitpick because I used the wrong word.
> > > I insist on the correct term to be used AND the correct counting
> > > to
> > > be
> > > applied. This is what I did.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > You randomly make something up three days after a proposal
> > > > passes
> > > > that
> > > > I'm a day off when I provide a paper trail going back to last
> > > > month
> > > > to
> > > > prove you wrong.
> > > Such as?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Particularly a proposal which was intended to cause peace, and
> > > > 10
> > > > people agreed and were convinced that we would put this behind
> > > > us.
> > > > But
> > > > no, someone has to troll me, speak foreign languages, use
> > > > accusations
> > > > of fraud, dishonesty crimes, and everything else, deliberately
> > > > changing election procedures clarified months ago.
> > > And now you switched from "you" to "someone".
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I want all of you to go away. I want you to let me sleep again.
> > > > I
> > > > want
> > > > to go on in my life and not have to skip real life events
> > > > because
> > > > I'm
> > > > scared to death.
> > > Again: Go and have your cool down. You can press the power button
> > > of
> > > your computer any time you like.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Most people agree that this should be over,
> > > And I'm one of them. I would be very happy if OpenNIC could
> > > actually
> > > solve it's real problems. There is this request of Homepage
> > > update,
> > > and
> > > I'm sure there is some random server failing to do some task.
> > > 
> > > If you are good in HTML I openly invite you to take care of the
> > > Homepage
> > > update request. I think it would be a nice way to get out of this
> > > pit.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > it's only like 3 trolls who are constantly dragging us back
> > > > into
> > > > this
> > > > garbage, and no matter what we do, find something to make fun
> > > > of
> > > > people and get people angry on purpose and then claim their
> > > > trolling
> > > > is in the interest of democracy.
> > > Stop calling people trolls that upload standards or do political
> > > protest. This is disrespectful to no end.
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > They count the votes anyway, and get the same results.
> > > If you refer to my message <1534239856.5822.9.camel AT lion.leolix.o
> > > rg>
> > > here, then: We didn't came to the same results.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Except when they
> > > > "misscount" [sic]
> > > Ha, nice find! Thank you. :)
> > > 
> > > This just proves that people ("they") on this list are often no
> > > native
> > > speakers. And therefore a fixation on the English language is
> > > counter
> > > to
> > > a society that welcomes people from all around the earth.
> > > 
> > > This is why it is important to allow threads like this --
> > > commentary
> > > on
> > > the events of the day in a language different from English.
> > > 
> > > I very much support the claim that voting processes and important
> > > information must be accessible to all. But this can not be done
> > > by
> > > limiting as limiting is the opposite of making things more
> > > available.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > things their own way. You cannot give the President a third
> > > > term by
> > > > combining multiple differing invalid and/or write-in and/or
> > > > spoiled
> > > > and/or spoilt [sic] and/or potato salad and/or paragraph essay
> > > > and/or
> > > > town name votes into a single vote to cancel Election Day.
> > > Nobody tried that. Please show it to me.
> > > 
> > > Also, it was a band name, not a town name (ref:
> > > <C36C1565-6711-4D39-9897-5C96D63A91AF AT mailbox.org>).
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Please, please, please leave me alone. I dont know hwat to do.
> > > > I
> > > > dont
> > > > know how to get you to leave me alone. I've done everything you
> > > > asked
> > > > for, gone out of my way to be kind, but not only is it never
> > > > good
> > > > enough, but it always results in mocking, trolling, and vicious
> > > > retaliation. I just want to live my life and use the servers.
> > > > Please
> > > > please stop. What do I have to do?
> > > > 
> > > All I can suggest you is to get your self some fresh air. Enjoy
> > > your
> > > life, go out and enjoy your winter/summer (I don't know where you
> > > are
> > > from).
> > > 
> > > Then return in a few days as friend with open and kind words, and
> > > without harsh and unreflected claims and words of disrespect.
> > > 
> > > I also repeat my invitation here: When you return I'm happy to
> > > work
> > > with
> > > you and Mr. Hanselka on the update of the website.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > With kind regards and best wishes for your health,
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:29:46 +0000, Philipp Schafft
> > > > <lion AT lion.leolix.org> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Good morning,
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Thu, 2018-08-16 at 04:22 -0400, Daniel Quintiliani wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Like you did to me, I can reply to another message in my
> > > > > > own
> > > > language. You yourself said we have a human right to do so.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Sure. But flooding the thread with off-topic discussion is
> > > > > unkind
> > > > > at
> > > > > best of no honor at worst.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Also claiming things not based on facts (my text) but fiction
> > > > > (your
> > > > > translation) is not. And it is forbidden in most nations of
> > > > > the
> > > > world,
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > including in the one I live.
> > > > > 
> > > > > With best regards,
> > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > -Dan Q
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:18:06 +0000, Philipp Schafft
> > > > <lion AT lion.leolix.org> wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > You yourself acknowledged that discussion may be in any
> > > > language. And
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > this is more a letter to the public than the start of a
> > > > discussion. Why
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > not just follow your own acknowledgment and let this
> > > > > > > thread
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > undisturbed? Including undisturbed by translations that
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > too
> > > > poor to
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > to be called a translation of the text and does not
> > > > > > > represent
> > > > anything
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > that is part of the on-topic discussion.
> > > --------
> > > You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list. 
> > > You may unsubscribe by emailing discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennic
> > > proj
> > > ect.org
> --------
> You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list. 
> You may unsubscribe by emailing discuss-unsubscribe AT lists.opennicproj
> ect.org