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[Sebastian Makowiecki <soocki AT mailbox.org>]

While the ciphered on-screen messages are in theory the same on every screen, filtered through each individual's perception mechanisms are a subject of subjective interpretation.

~ 
Sebastian Makowiecki

On 16 August 2018 13:48:57 GMT+01:00, kevin <krattai AT gmail.com> wrote:

It doesn't matter how many times I translate the original German post
and how many times I read it, that no where do I see there being any
threats of violence.  Maybe my google translate translates different...

I also find it interesting that there appear to be many members from
different (states? and) countries that understand what a spoiled ballot
is.  That's not to say that some won't understand, but it seems to be
generally understood within global voting systems.

Which leads me back to when I stated that we need to first consider
that there has not been established a legal country or state of origin
for openNIC, if there is any desire to legally uphold any governance in
respect to the real world.  That this "democracy" that we are chasing
is more an exercise of academics than real world functionality.  We are
wanting functional democracy when even in the real world, it doesn't
properly exist, regardless of anyone's assertion to the contrary.

I will take this back yet further to where I suggested that, for those
who are interested in directly competing with ICANN, please feel free
to form a "committee" and take the openNIC framework, create the
necessary governance decrees, and move forward as an independent group
seeking that goal.  Still part of the openNIC community and using the
openNIC core and framework, but with very specific goals, and not
directly involving the other members who are not interested in that
goal, leaving the community at large to continue working on its own
goals. ie. Like any commercial company taking open source software /
technology and building a business around it.  I could possibly support
that group, that would stand alone as it's own legal entity, I think.
 For the most part in principle, anyhow.  Until such time that it
simply became another ICANN.

Kevin



On Thu, 2018-08-16 at 11:53 +0000, Philipp Schafft wrote:

Good afternoon,


On Thu, 2018-08-16 at 07:01 -0400, Daniel Quintiliani wrote:

It's not my translation, it's Google's translation. Blame their
faulty
algorithms for being "unkind" and "flooding".

Their algorithms have not posted to my thread.

I simply copied and pasted it because nobody was understanding me
when
I thought it was violent.

Why did you think so in the first place? There was no reason to do
so.

Is there any way you can leave me alone and not have a problem with
me? What do I have to do so you can leave me alone? 

I have no personal problem with you at all. I'm also not targeting
your
person.

I'm here to hold the banner of democracy up. With the other banners
OpenNIC considers important.

And as clearly visible in the archives, I have done so in the past
when
other persons worked on what I consider fatal erosion on OpenNIC's
foundation.

I'm getting really tired of this. I've missed at least 2 family
get-togethers over the past month because I'm too scared of what
people here will do to me if I'm not right on time with the votes.
I
am having a hard time sleeping too because of OpenNIC, and health
issues which randomly appeared this week aren't any help.

I'm sorry to hear about this. And I wish you the best with your
health
problems.

All I can suggest here is that you slow down. This is one of the
things
I spoke in my text about. That rushing things is often a bad idea.
This
has nothing to do with you, or even OpenNIC. Just that rushing things
isn't how the world works.

No matter what I try to do to either (1) please everyone or (2) try
and put everything behind us and peace, someone finds some fault
with
it and uses it to attack me.

The point here is that it doesn't feel that way. I noticed that your
behavior changed. I also think that there there are aspects pointing
to
the right direction.

Yet I still see there many problems. All I can suggest you to allow
yourself a cool down. Why not e.g. ask someone else to count the
votes?
This way it's not your problem anymore. If you don't count them at
all,
you can't be blamed for doing wrong.

And in a democratic voting there is only one correct result from the
counting. Therefore it's of no relevance who counts.

I am scared. I don't know if there will be a proposal to target me
with something.

As hard as this one might sound, but: You did that against others.
And
things might or might come back to oneself.

I cannot honestly believe you legitimately compare about democracy.
You are a troll plain and simple.

You are attacking me personally again.

You speak and post threads in foreign languages just to aggravate
me.

Which is a offending allegation. How did you know? Over here people
nee
to prove such claims. If they can't... according to German law there
can
be up to five years of jail. This is not some minor thing. If you
raise
your voice like this, prove it!

What I did was commenting on the events of the day. In fact I used a
style that is commonly used to ask people to reflect. I actually
hoped
for no reply to my thread.

Also I did post in German (I don't see how the Internet has "foreign"
languages, this doesn't make sense to me) with your own approval. You
have acknowledged the use of non-English languages in discussions
yourself.

You nitpick because I used the wrong word.

I insist on the correct term to be used AND the correct counting to
be
applied. This is what I did.

You randomly make something up three days after a proposal passes
that
I'm a day off when I provide a paper trail going back to last month
to
prove you wrong.

Such as?

Particularly a proposal which was intended to cause peace, and 10
people agreed and were convinced that we would put this behind us.
But
no, someone has to troll me, speak foreign languages, use
accusations
of fraud, dishonesty crimes, and everything else, deliberately
changing election procedures clarified months ago.

And now you switched from "you" to "someone".

I want all of you to go away. I want you to let me sleep again. I
want
to go on in my life and not have to skip real life events because
I'm
scared to death.

Again: Go and have your cool down. You can press the power button of
your computer any time you like.

Most people agree that this should be over,

And I'm one of them. I would be very happy if OpenNIC could actually
solve it's real problems. There is this request of Homepage update,
and
I'm sure there is some random server failing to do some task.

If you are good in HTML I openly invite you to take care of the
Homepage
update request. I think it would be a nice way to get out of this
pit.

it's only like 3 trolls who are constantly dragging us back into
this
garbage, and no matter what we do, find something to make fun of
people and get people angry on purpose and then claim their
trolling
is in the interest of democracy.

Stop calling people trolls that upload standards or do political
protest. This is disrespectful to no end.

They count the votes anyway, and get the same results.

If you refer to my message <1534239856.5822.9.camel AT lion.leolix.org>
here, then: We didn't came to the same results.

Except when they
"misscount" [sic]

Ha, nice find! Thank you. :)

This just proves that people ("they") on this list are often no
native
speakers. And therefore a fixation on the English language is counter
to
a society that welcomes people from all around the earth.

This is why it is important to allow threads like this -- commentary
on
the events of the day in a language different from English.

I very much support the claim that voting processes and important
information must be accessible to all. But this can not be done by
limiting as limiting is the opposite of making things more available.

things their own way. You cannot give the President a third term by
combining multiple differing invalid and/or write-in and/or spoiled
and/or spoilt [sic] and/or potato salad and/or paragraph essay
and/or
town name votes into a single vote to cancel Election Day.

Nobody tried that. Please show it to me.

Also, it was a band name, not a town name (ref:
<C36C1565-6711-4D39-9897-5C96D63A91AF AT mailbox.org>).

Please, please, please leave me alone. I dont know hwat to do. I
dont
know how to get you to leave me alone. I've done everything you
asked
for, gone out of my way to be kind, but not only is it never good
enough, but it always results in mocking, trolling, and vicious
retaliation. I just want to live my life and use the servers.
Please
please stop. What do I have to do?

All I can suggest you is to get your self some fresh air. Enjoy your
life, go out and enjoy your winter/summer (I don't know where you are
from).

Then return in a few days as friend with open and kind words, and
without harsh and unreflected claims and words of disrespect.

I also repeat my invitation here: When you return I'm happy to work
with
you and Mr. Hanselka on the update of the website.


With kind regards and best wishes for your health,

On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:29:46 +0000, Philipp Schafft
<lion AT lion.leolix.org> wrote:

Good morning,

On Thu, 2018-08-16 at 04:22 -0400, Daniel Quintiliani wrote:

Like you did to me, I can reply to another message in my own

language. You yourself said we have a human right to do so.

Sure. But flooding the thread with off-topic discussion is unkind
at
best of no honor at worst.

Also claiming things not based on facts (my text) but fiction
(your
translation) is not. And it is forbidden in most nations of the

world,

including in the one I live.

With best regards,

--

-Dan Q


On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:18:06 +0000, Philipp Schafft

<lion AT lion.leolix.org> wrote:

You yourself acknowledged that discussion may be in any

language. And

this is more a letter to the public than the start of a

discussion. Why

not just follow your own acknowledgment and let this thread
be
undisturbed? Including undisturbed by translations that are
too

poor to

to be called a translation of the text and does not represent

anything

that is part of the on-topic discussion.

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