Discuss mailing list

[mike <mike AT pikeaero.com>]

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On 11/12/2012 08:52 PM, netadmin wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-11-12 at 19:33 -0600, mike wrote:
>> On 11/12/2012 08:11 PM, netadmin wrote:
>>> How would a body with no legal structure be a part of any court
>>>  proceedings as such?
>> 
>> You don't need a "legal structure" whatever that means, to be a
>> part of a court proceeding, all you need is a subpoena.
> 
> OpenNIC is a gather of natural persons (from a legal standpoint),
> and together does not form any sorts of legal personality.
> 

Exactly, a "Volunteer Association", a kind of "Collective", that's
exactly what I'm saying.

You may choose to call it something else and claim no legal
personality, and you have every right to argue that position, but if
someone in the collective has engaged in commerce with me (for
instance) under the banner of the collective and then perpetrated a
breach of contract against be, then I'm going to try to sue the
collective, (this is presuming that the collective is actively
promoting commerce as was discussed) I would have little trouble
pointing out that it looks like a "Volunteer Association" (in law I
just discovered is commonly referred to as "unincorporated
association") They have legal definitions for these things, so
therefore they must *exist* somehow in law.

I would argue that it  looks like a duck, it walks like a duck, and
quacks like a duck, therefore in all likelihood, it is a duck. I don't
think I would have much trouble with that argument.

(legal definitions follow)...

>> Unless someone can come up with a better description, the best 
>> definition that I have come to understand is that OpenNIC, as it
>>  stands, is a "Voluntary Association" style of a "Collective". 
>> Such entities have well established and well understood legal 
>> standing.
> 
> What would the labels "Voluntary Association" style of a
> "Collective" matter in a court of law? Wouldn't we have to
> defend/prosecute as natural persons? What kind of legal standing
> would such entities have, in a nutshell ?
> 

Not if I'm going to sue the collective, that would mean all  of you
together as a group, combined, as in an association, as in
co-conspirators, having worked and plotted together and conspired for
the common goal of extracting my funds, for some no good fraudulent
TLD that vanishes before my very eyes leaving me and my clients
without recourse, causing us untold financial ruin (I have the figures
right  here your honour)...and so on....Your Honour, I need to see a
remedy to not only my financial suffering, but that of my clients, my
council, my dog, my neighbor's dog, all at the hands of this entire
gaggle of conspiring thieves and criminals!

(I don't really feel that way about you guys, but if I where going to
sue you that's the kind of stuff you could expect...)

In a nutshell:

Legal Definition of "volunteer":

In conveyancing, one who holds a title under a voluntary conveyance,
i. e., one made without consideration, good or valuable, to support
it. A person who gives his services without any express or implied
promise of remuneration in return is called a “volunteer,” and is
entitled to no remuneration for his services, nor to any compensation
for injuries sustained by him in performing what he has un- dertaken
Sweet. Also one who officiously pays the debt of another. See Irvine
v. Angus. 93 Fed. 633, 35 C. C. A. 501; Arnold v. Green, 116 N. Y.
566. 23 N. E. 1; Bennett v. Chandler, 199 111. 97. 64 N. E. 1052;
Welch v. Maine Cent. R. Co., 86 Me. 552, 30 Atl. 116, 25 L. R. A. 65S.
In military law, the term designates one who l’reely and voluntarily
offers himself for service in the army or navy; as distinguished from
one who is compelled to serve by draft or conscription, and also from
one entered by enlistment in the standing army.

Legal Definition of "association":

The act of a number of persons who unite or join together for some
special purpose or business. The union of a company of persons for the
transaction of designated affairs, or the attainment of some common
object. An unincorporated society; a body of persons united and acting
together without a charter, but upon the methods and forms used by
incorporated bodies for the prosecution of some common enterprise.
Allen v. Stevens, 33 App. Div. 485, 54 N. T. Supp. 23; Pratt v.
Asylum, 20 App. Div. 352, 46 N. Y. Supp. 1035; State v. Steele, 37
Minn. 42S, 34 N. W. 903; Mills v. State, 23 Tex. 303; Laycock v.
State, 136 Ind. 217, 36 N. E. 137. In English law. A writ directing
certain persons (usually the clerk and his subordinate officers) to
associate themselves with the justices and sergeants for the purposes
of taking the assises. 3 Bl. Comm. 59, 60.


- -- 
Regards,

Mike Sharkey,CEO
Pike Aerospace Research Corp. (Pike Aero)
420 Cross Street
Sudbury, Ontario
Canada    P3E-3W1

P:1+(705)586-2255
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