Discuss mailing list

[Al Beano <albino AT autistici.org>]

On 08/08/18 15:46, Verax wrote:
> The problem is that you're not voting for one of the options, which in 
> a free-form vote can be confusing.  You do realize you could just 
> write "I decline to vote" instead of trying to be funny or make a 
> political point about potato salad or whatever, and then "clarifying" 
> another spoiled vote.  That's what I consider garbage.
It's pretty obvious that a vote for potato salad is a deliberately 
spoilt ballot. I don't see the problem here. The only ballots possible 
by email are free-form and people are free to write what they want.
> If you want to decline, just do so.
it's clear that that's what they did
> And no, there's nothing requiring us to tally up your mickey mouse votes
apart from the duty we have to run our little ad-hoc democracy as 
honestly as possible
> , in my country people who write dumb things on their ballot don't 
> even get counted.
an advantage of free-form ballots is that people can write whatever they 
want, dumb or otherwise. It all gets read, and it all gets counted. 
Sorry your country's voting system sucks.

I'm not totally opposed to moving to a more automated voting system 
where the only options are yes, no or abstain but I would view the lack 
of an option to creatively spoil the ballot as a disadvantage, not the 
other way around.

Given that there is no formal option to abstain from voting one way or 
the other, all invalid votes must be treated as abstentions. There's no 
need to freak out - unless the vote says "yes", "no" or something 
obviously synonymous with one of these things, it can be counted as 
invalid. Simple as that.

albino

> Declines are counted.
>
> --Verax
>
> Philipp Schafft wrote:
> > Good afternoon,
> >
> > On Wed, 2018-08-08 at 10:00 -0400, Verax wrote:
> > > This is wildly incorrect.  There is nothing about democracy that
> > > "inherently requires" invalid votes.
> >
> > You are wrong here.
> >
> > Invalid votes are the only way to demonstrate your will when none of the
> > option is valid for you.
> >
> >
> > > We are also not a massive country where one voice is not going to be
> > > heard.  If you have a problem with something, maybe you should say
> > > something,
> >
> > Maybe you check the mailing list archive and IRC. I think I spoke up and
> > explained the situation very often.
> >
> >
> >
> > > rather than stuffing garbage into the vote threads,
> >
> > Calling votes "garbage" is exactly how a democratic society should work.
> > Nice to see how much you value member's opinion.
> >
> >
> > > which we already have a hard enough time keeping on topic.
> >
> > I hardly see how "My Vote is: [option]." is a problem for keeping
> > on-topic in a voting thread.
> >
> > If you think that actually casting a vote is a problem, why not skip the
> > process completely? Who needs all those off-topic votes in a process of
> > finding a democratic solution for a given problem?
> >
> >
> > With best regards and in deepest worries,
> >
> > > --Verax
> > >
> > > Philipp Schafft wrote:
> > > > Good morning.
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 2018-08-07 at 20:50 -0400, Verax wrote:
> > > > > These people troll in every vote thread, they'll just make stupid 
> > > > > votes
> > > > > in english.
> > > >
> > > > It's really a sad to see people considering political protest
> > > > "troll"ing.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > A better solution IMO is to move the voting to somewhere where 
> > > > > free-form
> > > > > votes are not allowed.
> > > >
> > > > As long as that system IS one that is up to democratic standards 
> > > > that's
> > > > fine. Democratic voting inherently requires to cast an invalid vote.
> > > >
> > > > With best regards,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --Verax
> > > > >
> > > > > Rouben wrote:
> > > > > > I think “potato salad” qualifies as a spoiled ballot. :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 16:13 Daniel Quintiliani <danq AT runbox.com> 
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > One of them asked if the word was Austrian or German. Google 
> > > > > > > Translate
> > > > > > > does not offer an option for Austrian, and one of the votes was 
> > > > > > > German for
> > > > > > > "potato salad"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Dan Q
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, 07 Aug 2018 18:55:18 +0000, gp AT gparent.net wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Regardless if the people voting in other languages were being 
> > > > > > > > silly or
> > > > > > > > not, I think it would be a good idea.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 2018-08-07 18:50, Daniel Quintiliani wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A number of individuals are voting on proposals in other 
> > > > > > > > > languages
> > > > > > > > > (Austrian? German?). Not everyone can speak these languages, 
> > > > > > > > > and I've
> > > > > > > > > never seen languages other than English spoken on the list. I 
> > > > > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > know how to process these votes, though I'm hoping someone 
> > > > > > > > > else can
> > > > > > > > > before time runs out (or until someone translates them for 
> > > > > > > > > Jonah and
> > > > > > > > > I). But in the future, unless the demographics in this shift into
> > > > > > > > > speakers of another language, who can reverse saide policy, we 
> > > > > > > > > should
> > > > > > > > > require voting in English, with votes in other languages 
> > > > > > > > > considered
> > > > > > > > > invalid.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What do you think?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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